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06:57 AM on 10/08/12 
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Ferrari333SP
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Some of the quotes from Venezuela sound like things you'll hear after our election, when they talk about how half the country is really against Chavez. Is Venezuela as hyper-partisan as the US is right now?


That's what it seems like; with nearly 45% of the popular vote, that's a pretty decent size of the population against Chavez. Hopefully though this energizes the opposition to become more involved/interested in what their government does, so hopefully then in six years they elect somebody who can actually enact some positive change in the country, because I fear now Venezuela will stagnate for another six years.
07:04 AM on 10/08/12 
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Ferrari333SP
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Chávez won by 9.5%, but in 2006 he won by 26%, so the opinion of the people in the country has definitely changed. The next six years will be a very testing and difficult time for the country.
07:11 AM on 10/08/12 
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Ferrari333SP
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Hugo Chavez celebrates re-election in Venezuela: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-19867445
07:15 AM on 10/08/12 
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Nevuk
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...89601Z20121008
-Chavez wins. Already talking about it, here's an official source. Also apparently crime rate has tripled under Chavez. I'm pretty neutral on the guy. Did he really promise civil war if he lost re-election?

Here's an opinion from a venezualan poster on TL . (Different forum i post on that has a lot more SA and SEA posters). 80% turnout for the election
Quote:
Today is seriously one of the saddest days in recent memory, at first I thought they rigged the election but Capriles didn't say anything so they know that the majority INDEED vote for Chavez.

This government is the biggest farce, they say they are socialist but they are capitalist as fuck. They hide behind that facade to appeal to the poor and the ignorant saying they will help them and give them money but they don't, they are just keeping it for themselves and getting richer and richer by the day and give away money from oil to foreign governments to gain international support while poverty and insecurity is worse than ever. I can go on and on about this because it really infuriates me, a friend of mine is dating a nephew of this "president" we're stuck with and she's been traveling all over Europe with this man in a private jet for the last month. Why is this man who isn't even that close to the government swimming in that much cash to have a private jet and travel to europe when most people can't even buy enough food to eat every day?. Its down right disgusting that anyone related to people in the government are filthy rich right now when most of these "leaders" were high school dropouts working as janitors or worse before this "revolution".

Government has done an amazing job at raising this new generation of ignorants who don't really look at facts or even want them, they only listen to what their leaders tell them and follow them blindly. Attack after attack to Universities to make sure they teach this socialist BS just to keep people stupid and in an illusion that the government cares about them, when all they are just pulling the strings so they can stay in the power and steal more and more oil money.
07:26 AM on 10/08/12 
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Ferrari333SP
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...89601Z20121008
-Chavez wins. Already talking about it, here's an official source. Also apparently crime rate has tripled under Chavez. I'm pretty neutral on the guy. Did he really promise civil war if he lost re-election?

Here's an opinion from a venezualan poster on TL . (Different forum i post on that has a lot more SA and SEA posters). 80% turnout for the election

Yep, this is pretty much the situation down there at the moment; last year alone they had over 19,000 homicides, higher than the U.S. and Europe combined. Chavez just doesn't know how to properly run a country; he doesn't know how to grow the economy, reduce poverty, reduce crime, develop his oil sector, develop infrastructure, etc. As a leader of a country, he's terrible.
08:42 AM on 10/08/12 
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Chinese sex fair shows how prudishness and liberation sit side-by-side.
Decades after Mao Zedong, couples are happy to browse sex toys together – but not all attitudes have changed.

Pretty interesting article about sex in China. Not political really, but it's a good, fairly long read.

Also includes this picture, which I love:

11:39 AM on 10/08/12 
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Nevuk
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Yep, this is pretty much the situation down there at the moment; last year alone they had over 19,000 homicides, higher than the U.S. and Europe combined. Chavez just doesn't know how to properly run a country; he doesn't know how to grow the economy, reduce poverty, reduce crime, develop his oil sector, develop infrastructure, etc. As a leader of a country, he's terrible.
Here's some more from the same poster. (this is all taken from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=374027 )
Quote:
Obviously he is communist there is no hiding that fact, but they only use that as a farce to steal and steal money, this is probably one of the most corrupt governments in the world and the fact that these people are getting rich just by being part of this political tragedy is proof of that. They only say they are "socialist" aka communist to keep people in check, I went to vote for Capriles and I REALLY hope this doesn't come back to bite me because a lot of people who work in the public sector can lose their jobs if they did this, I however do not but they still find ways to screw you over if you ever need any public service. I really don't get it, if they are so into income equality and giving poor people their part that "the elite took from them" why is it that only ministers, governors, majors etc etc are the only ones getting rich and not the poor people? They are still in the same misery they were before and the "elite" was just replaced by "new" and undeserving people who got there by taking advantage of the poor and ignorant's hopes for a better life.

@ieatkids5 Honestly there is no "progressing" for the opposition now that we lost the election, it was all or nothing for this election just like every other before this. The only reason Venezuelan elections are of any relevance is because this douche bag has been a president for 14 freaking years T_T and now 20 till 2019 so any transition out of this would be a big deal. This whole government is about one party and one party only, you are not in said party and you get no saying in how the country is ran and in a lot of cases only the president makes most of the decisions since he has COMPLETE control over the government and every aspect of it with his party controlling it. The only way to change the course this country is headed to is by removing this party and its president. I have no idea what the opposition will do after this, try to bring to light more shit that these people do and convince those 7 million of ignorants to think before they vote next election, is the only thing I can think of. I still get the feeling that most of the country REALLY does want change but somehow there are still a lot of people who believe in Chavez, its heart breaking.

Also @Ozell are you high? What is a canadian doing claiming chavez has done shit for my country? <.<... You are about as ignorant as it gets my friend no offense, if you don't live here you really shouldn't make these comments as if you know what's going on here. You get to live in your bubble in canada with a good stable economy, not having any problem leaving the house in fear of getting robbed in broad daylight, if you want you can create a company and the government wont take it from you because "It will do more good in the hands of the government" and then get no compensation for it whatsoever, you can graduate from university and get a decent job that doesn't pay you minimum wage just because the economy is so fucked up and where all the good jobs are not behind this wall of "socialism" that you can't access unless you're hooked with the government.
You get to stay there and go "Oh yes Chavez is awesome because he stood up against american imperialism that's awesome heck yea!" While yeah its great that USA is not sucking the country's oil, it was only replaced by china, cuba, iran etc etc now only Chavez's friends get to steal instead of his enemies this is JUST SO MUCH BETTER /Sarcasm. I don't know if you people know but in 99 there was a big tragedy in a couple of the states because of the rains they were completely flooded, think of it as Katrina but in flood form and for the most part these states are still in the same way they were after the floods 14 years later, most people of those states had to be relocated to other places since those places are in terrible conditions. In 14 years he hasn't done crap to fix the infrastructure of those places but oh he went to neighborhood X or Y and hugged some poor old ladies and claimed he would make their lives better and that totally makes up for it right?. There is nothing particularly WRONG with socialism but not when it's used as a weapon to convince the poor that their lives will be better if the are socialist, I am sure that it can work and obviously it has worked in other countries but it will not work here. Too many ignorant and uneducated people who don't look at the facts and for some reason have enough with empty promises.
I honestly could care less if he was bff's with USA or with China, that makes no real difference in my life as they will both take advantage of our oil reserve but if only all that money was put to good use and improve the lives of the people who live HERE not spent in giving money to his allies and filling their own pockets. The corruption here its just ridiculous and the people who vote for this man don't seem to care, they play dumb because they are getting rich by taking advantage of the system or they are stupid enough not to know.

Also, I saw someone mention that only people in mid to high class could come here because of how difficult it is to get internet here, I have to say you are wrong while it is quite impossible to support a family with just 1 salary( as 80% of the population only perceives minimum wage ), if everyone in the house works then you can afford a few extra stuff but not really much. I would say I'm relatively poor, I have an OK job and I do a few other things on the side so I get to afford my internet.

a different post from him. Quite interesting stuff, rare to get perspectives like this. Apparently Venezuala's energy sector sucks
Quote:

Really? You are arguing with the PERSON WHO LIVES IN THE COUNTRY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? The average venezuelan makes about 250 to 350$ A MONTH and you want to know how much we spend in my house to feed 3 people? 400$-500$ (And I'm being really cheap here) a month, now imagine if I had a bigger family, all 3 people in the house have to work to be able to pay for said 400$ in food and about 200-300$ in bills and just general living expenses. "Halving the unemployment" means nothing when ALL of these jobs are public sector jobs which most people make just minimum wage, that is what 70% of the population makes, I still see plenty of poor people and the "ghettos" are growing by the day so maybe they arent AS poor but they are still fucked. What good is Quadrupling the oil exports when most of this money goes to the president and its ministers pockets? Did you know he recently sold 20% of our gold reserves because they owe so much money to china and other countries most of the oil money isnt even our own any more?. The only reason there is "income equality" is because the private sector is pretty much dead and most jobs come from the public sector in which most people only make yet again MINIMUM WAGE!.
He took a lot of factories, farms, radio stations, tv stations, you name it that were owned by other people and "gave it to the poor people" but all these places are now in disarray because they fire everyone who worked there who knew what they were doing and studied to do such a job with high school dropouts. The biggest example of this were the electric companies we had here, most states had their own privately owned electric company and chavez came and nationalized them he didnt give a dime for these people who owned them btw, and we went from SELLING electricity to neighbor countries to BUYING electricity from colombia and brazil because these companies are run by idiots who barely know how to turn on the light switch so now they produce 10-15% of the energy they used to produce. We have SO many power outages where I live because of this and its not just here its all over the country.
Quote:
I need no further proof on the energy part than the fact that half the city has no power for at least 5-6 hours a day, this wouldnt be a HUGE problem if it was in the early morning but nope middle of the day no power, how are you supposed to run a business with no power?
There is no infrastructure being built anywhere I live or anywhere where friends in other states live, I remember the last thing he built was a bridge that took like 10 years to build btw and it wasn't that big (can't remember the name atm). There is a transportation project here to have something like you see in San francisco and it has stayed a project for the last 8 years? they built some stuff like 6 years ago but since our governor is not in Chavez favor he gets no money to finish said project (this government is very centralized and revolves around the central government).

I really couldn't give you any concrete numbers on the debt but honestly if the debt had indeed decreased I think there would be a change in the life of the average people and there hasn't been such change, as I said most people make minimum wage and inflation just gets worse and worse each year, they increase the minimum every now and then when he wants to convince people hes REALLY HELPING POOR PEOPLE, but prices just go up accordingly and you're in the same place where you started. All I hear and read all the time about government spending is "Oh Chavez gave money to Bolivian government to buy 3534534 of X or Y or to build roads etc" "Hes lending money to Argentinian government to help with X or Y" instead of REALLY helping with our own infrastructure there are so many holes on the roads and public buildings in decay around here that its sad. You know what really made me angry the other day? I went to the supermarket the other day and ALL the meat there said it was from Brazil , our reliance on oil is SO much that our agriculture is almost dead if we have to buy MEAT and vegetables from Brazil, because obviously the government doesnt make enough with oil to increase subsidies to agriculture /sarcasm.
03:08 PM on 10/08/12 
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Nuns On A Bus
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Hah, that sounds more like everything I've read about Venezuela. Food/energy shortages, a collapsed economy completely reliant on the oil (which gets more expensive for them to produce because of their awful infrastructure), and lots of nepotism and corruption.
04:32 PM on 10/08/12 
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Zeran
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with the boom in oil prices, venezuela really could have/could be doing some very productive things to improve infrastructure, further reduce poverty, etc. i think this will probably eventually happen, if only to stave off an electoral defeat of some kind.
06:04 PM on 10/08/12 
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Ferrari333SP
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Hah, that sounds more like everything I've read about Venezuela. Food/energy shortages, a collapsed economy completely reliant on the oil (which gets more expensive for them to produce because of their awful infrastructure), and lots of nepotism and corruption.

Yeah from my time down there, I was able to see/experience most of this as well. The power cuts during the day for us weren't that bad, because our group was out and about during the day, and our Church(where we were staying) had generators, but still. Considering the money that should be coming in from all the oil they sell, way more money should be pumped into infrastructure around the country, but simply isn't. The country has pretty much the largest known oil reserves in the world, yet is producing less oil than when Chavez took power. Back in the day PDVSA(state oil company) used to be run by pretty competent people, who knew what they were doing, but when Chavez started nationalizing everything, people in PDVSA resisted, and then Chavez fired them all, replacing them were incompetent people(like that guy above mentions). Oil money is coming into the country, but Chavez gives so much of it away, invests it in sporting talent(paying Williams F1 team rumored $30-40 million a year to employ Venezuelan F1 driver Pastor Maldonado, along with several GP2 drivers, and numerous other sponsorship deals), paying off loans, etc. The gold reserves, the above mentions, were I believe sold to Chinese interests too; Chavez will only become ever more reliant on China to offset the country's debt in the future. *sigh* Have to wait six more years now, before the people will be able to hope again.
06:19 PM on 10/08/12 
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Ferrari333SP
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Chávez Wins New Term in Venezuela, Holding Off Surge by Opposition: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/08/world/americas/venezuela-presidential-election.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&ref =world

Pretty interesting: What now for Venezuela's economy?: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19813533

A Quick Comparative Assessment of Georgia and Venezuela: http://dartthrowingchimp.wordpress.c...and-venezuela/


06:22 PM on 10/08/12 
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Ferrari333SP
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Venezuela's Next Inning: Chávez may have won another election, but it's the opposition that should be celebrating

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...as_next_inning
05:08 AM on 10/10/12 
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Nuns On A Bus
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I really gotta keep up on FP stuff, I've been slacking lately.

Here's an article from the BBC that I liked, comparing the civil war in Syria to the Spanish Civil War:

Quote:
Analogies are never perfect, but as I have tracked this rebellion, and read and reflected on it, thoughts of the Spanish civil war have come to mind. The rancid hatred and mercilessness that separates the warring camps in Syria is evocative of that quality of hatred that played out in Spain. Franco had been a tedious, colourless man, but the cruelty was relentless. No Syrian Picasso has yet given Aleppo, bombed by the regime's aircraft, the fame of Guernica, but Guernica was a town of 7,000 people, while Aleppo is a large metropolis, Syria's largest, a city with a fabled history of travel and commerce.

Ours is a different world today. Romantics and communists were drawn to Spain - the Lincoln Brigade, men and women who saw the cause of freedom hanging in the balance in that war. We have no such brigades now. True, some Sunni Islamists, Libyans and others, have made their way to Syria. But they are a trickle, and the Syrians fight alone. They invoke Allah more often than they did at the beginning of their struggle - which is perhaps an accurate reading of their solitude in the world of nations.
12:40 PM on 10/11/12 
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Nuns On A Bus
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07:42 AM on 10/12/12 
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Zeran
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^ is that syria?



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