AbsolutePunk.net
   Username
Password
This Thread is Closed.
 
Share
08:34 AM on 01/16/13 
Offline
User Info.
crackedthesky
cause when I fly solo I fly so high
crackedthesky's Avatar
Gladstone, MO
Male - 25 Years Old
Technically, he did say "more than three". I would argue that the article you linked said "intent to kill" two more and should count, but based purely on exact specifications, he isn't really changing it.

He keeps coming up with reasons why others don't count and insisting there is "one exception" when there are several.
08:35 AM on 01/16/13 
Offline
User Info.
crackedthesky
cause when I fly solo I fly so high
crackedthesky's Avatar
Gladstone, MO
Male - 25 Years Old
Another one: http://m.cbsnews.com/fullstory.rbml?...0&videofeed=36

Before you go to that gun blog shaming the media for not mentioning this mall is a "gun-free zone" you should know it became one in response to this shooting.
08:36 AM on 01/16/13 
Offline
User Info.
EasySkankin
EasySkankin's Avatar
Male - 22 Years Old
So your whole argument rests on the idea that people who are almost indisputably mentally disturbed are thinking and making decisions rationally, and will be deterred by the prospect that at least one person will be present with a gun? What about the people who already decided to commit suicide after? Why would they care?

Not only that, if trained police officers run away (as at columbine) then they don't count - but why would an untrained civilian, in full on panic, remain on the scene? I don't see any thread of logic here.
The logic goes that the more chance there is of a shooter meeting more armed resistance sooner, less chance he will pick that location. Notice I am NOT saying that we should have rambos running around with automatic AK-47s, or that a teacher with a 9mm will always effectively neutralize a shooter in full kevlar dual wielding AR-15's (Aside: playing that out in my head, that actually sounds a bit plausible...). People can have evil convictions but maintain rationality. If we were to equate kind-heartedness to rationality than these public shooters wouldn't be able to tie their own shoe.

Now, the vast majority expect to die, and by the nature of these things I hope we can all assume that at least one of these killers' objectives is to kill as many people as soon as possible (among whatever other caveats that would influence their choice, students, muslims, etc.). Doing so in a place where you know there will only be few or no armed resistors is more enticing than in another area with less certainty.
08:40 AM on 01/16/13 
Offline
User Info.
crackedthesky
cause when I fly solo I fly so high
crackedthesky's Avatar
Gladstone, MO
Male - 25 Years Old
Most mass shooters are shooting up their own school or place of employment in retaliation for some wrong that has been done to them. Assuming that allowing more guns on such a scene will decrease deaths is bad logic. Not to mention there have been several mass shootings with others armed present and it did nothing, in the Gabby Giffords case several others were armed and one man nearly shot the guy who disarmed the gunman thinking he was the gunman.

Adding more firearms into the mix is more likely to increase confusion and multiply casualties than to stop tragedy before it happens.
08:42 AM on 01/16/13 
Offline
User Info.
EasySkankin
EasySkankin's Avatar
Male - 22 Years Old
Shootings wouldn't decline as a result of doing away with gun-free zones. The motivating factors acting on the individuals who plan these shootings will still be there, and the possibility that someone nearby might be armed is not going to be much of a deterrent in most cases (and especially in cases where the gunman doesn't plan on getting out alive anyway.)
Mass shootings would not disappear, but I believe they will be fewer and less severe if there were more trained carriers allowed on all premises. Honestly, though, I am not as interested in mass shootings and I think it's a horrible precedent to base the law of the land on a handful of events. Later, after classes when I can compile some data from some books, I can show how upward trends in concealed carry follow downward trends in violent crime and vice versa, among other things, and this helps guide my position on these gun free zones.
08:46 AM on 01/16/13 
Online
User Info.
ChaseTx
Entitled user
ChaseTx's Avatar
Denton, TX
Male - 26 Years Old
The logic goes that the more chance there is of a shooter meeting more armed resistance sooner, less chance he will pick that location. Notice I am NOT saying that we should have rambos running around with automatic AK-47s, or that a teacher with a 9mm will always effectively neutralize a shooter in full kevlar dual wielding AR-15's (Aside: playing that out in my head, that actually sounds a bit plausible...). People can have evil convictions but maintain rationality. If we were to equate kind-heartedness to rationality than these public shooters wouldn't be able to tie their own shoe.

Now, the vast majority expect to die, and by the nature of these things I hope we can all assume that at least one of these killers' objectives is to kill as many people as soon as possible (among whatever other caveats that would influence their choice, students, muslims, etc.). Doing so in a place where you know there will only be few or no armed resistors is more enticing than in another area with less certainty.
Even if shooters do favor locations where guns are not allowed (which includes pretty much all schools, government buildings, retail locations -- almost anywhere that would be chosen as a target in the first place), they are not going to decide against the shooting just because they think there might be citizens with guns on them
08:46 AM on 01/16/13 
Offline
User Info.
EasySkankin
EasySkankin's Avatar
Male - 22 Years Old
Another one: http://m.cbsnews.com/fullstory.rbml?...0&videofeed=36

Before you go to that gun blog shaming the media for not mentioning this mall is a "gun-free zone" you should know it became one in response to this shooting.
Would you happen to have a link that it happened afterwards?

And let me ask you a question: do you think making it a gun free zone will do ANYTHING to prevent a shooting?
08:47 AM on 01/16/13 
Online
User Info.
Jake Gyllenhaal
There was a fish in the percolator
Jake Gyllenhaal's Avatar
Twin Peaks
Male
Mass shootings would not disappear, but I believe they will be fewer and less severe if there were more trained carriers allowed on all premises. Honestly, though, I am not as interested in mass shootings and I think it's a horrible precedent to base the law of the land on a handful of events. Later, after classes when I can compile some data from some books, I can show how upward trends in concealed carry follow downward trends in violent crime and vice versa, among other things, and this helps guide my position on these gun free zones.

Don't forget to mention Kennesaw, Georgia.
08:48 AM on 01/16/13 
Online
User Info.
caveBEAR
( ω )
caveBEAR's Avatar
Palm Coast, FL
Male - 27 Years Old
Adding more firearms into the mix is more likely to increase confusion and multiply casualties than to stop tragedy before it happens.

I have nothing to say, because this is all that needs to be said.
08:51 AM on 01/16/13 
Offline
User Info.
EasySkankin
EasySkankin's Avatar
Male - 22 Years Old
Even if shooters do favor locations where guns are not allowed (which includes pretty much all schools, government buildings, retail locations -- almost anywhere that would be chosen as a target in the first place), they are not going to decide against the shooting just because they think there might be citizens with guns on them
It varies so much place to place, not just in the manner guns are allowed but how many citizens actually carry. I'm not speaking in absolutes, but allowing carry on these premises could make it LESS likely, and that is plenty enough reason.
08:55 AM on 01/16/13 
Offline
User Info.
crackedthesky
cause when I fly solo I fly so high
crackedthesky's Avatar
Gladstone, MO
Male - 25 Years Old
Would you happen to have a link that it happened afterwards?

And let me ask you a question: do you think making it a gun free zone will do ANYTHING to prevent a shooting?

I found a different gun blog complaining about how they made it a gun-free zone afterward.
08:57 AM on 01/16/13 
Offline
User Info.
loveisdead
Go Peyton Go
loveisdead's Avatar
Long Island
Male - 27 Years Old
Moderator


Quick changeup. Found this pretty humorous.
09:02 AM on 01/16/13 
Offline
User Info.
EasySkankin
EasySkankin's Avatar
Male - 22 Years Old
Hahaha a really neat case! But it lays out the argument dramatically
09:03 AM on 01/16/13 
Offline
User Info.
loveisdead
Go Peyton Go
loveisdead's Avatar
Long Island
Male - 27 Years Old
Moderator
09:14 AM on 01/16/13 
Offline
User Info.
loveisdead
Go Peyton Go
loveisdead's Avatar
Long Island
Male - 27 Years Old
Moderator
Here's Obama's plans...

* Require criminal background checks for all gun sales.
* Take four executive actions to ensure information on dangerous individuals is available to the background check system.
* Reinstate and strengthen the assault weapons ban.
* Restore the 10-round limit on ammunition magazines.
* Protect police by finishing the job of getting rid of armor-piercing bullets.
* Give law enforcement additional tools to prevent and prosecute gun crime.
* End the freeze on gun violence research.
* Make our schools safer with more school resource officers and school counselors, safer climates, and better emergency response plans.
* Help ensure that young people get the mental health treatment they need.
* Ensure health insurance plans cover mental health benefits.
 



NEWS, MUSIC & MORE
Search News
Release Dates
Exclusives
Best New Music
Submit News
CONNECT
Forums
Contests
RSS
Mobile Version
Banners, Flyers, Widgets
HIDDEN TREASURES
Free Music
Video News
Sports Forum
AP.net Related News
Recommendations
INFORMATION
FAQ
Contact Us
Copyright Policy
Terms of Service
Privacy Policy
FOLLOW
Twitter | Facebook
PropertyOfZack
PunkNews.org
UnderTheGun
Chorus.fm