[SamuelJLast]

Originally Posted by thejetstolehome

Could be. Don't forget the rate stats like wOBA and wRC+.

Good job I didn't, haha! Glad I read up on those two stats a little while ago.

[Until The Bombs]

Originally Posted by SamuelJLast

So if I was to be involved in a discussion with someone who was trying to claim that a top player in the league wasn't very good, what stats should I use to prove I'm correct? I'm new to this, but I'm thinking WAR would be a decent place to start?

If they aren't familiar with WAR, don't use it. I'm guessing it's a position player? You could use OBP, SLG compared to league average. If they play in a pitcher's park, it'd make their accomplishment all the more impressive. You can work baserunning/stealing in if a significant portion of their value derives from it. It's a little tougher to do, but I find the most simple way is to point out that it makes some of their singles/doubles, doubles/triples. As far as defense, it's easiest to just note if their bad/good/great. If most of their value derives from defense, it'll be tough, but you could explain UZR, for one, and note how they've scored over the last three years.

[SamuelJLast]

Originally Posted by Until The Bombs

If they aren't familiar with WAR, don't use it. I'm guessing it's a position player? You could use OBP, SLG compared to league average. If they play in a pitcher's park, it'd make their accomplishment all the more impressive. You can work baserunning/stealing in if a significant portion of their value derives from it. It's a little tougher to do, but I find the most simple way is to point out that it makes some of their singles/doubles, doubles/triples. As far as defense, it's easiest to just note if their bad/good/great. If most of their value derives from defense, it'll be tough, but you could explain UZR, for one, and note how they've scored over the last three years.

I'll explain the situation, see if you guys can help guide me if I went wrong somewhere and what to learn about, etc.

Basically, discussion is going on about Profar and someone has said trade/move Kinsler and replace him with Profar. I've said that replacing one of the top 2B in the league is a crazy idea, which has been rebutted by the following.

"Kinsler one of the best 2B in the league??? BAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! !!!!!!!!! sorry"

I've responded to him using Fangraphs, showing that since Kinsler's debut in 2006 he's 5th in fWAr, 5th in wOBA, 6th SLG, 8th wRC+, 4th HR (which isn't exactly relevant), and that Kinsler is good defensively (as far as I'm aware he is). I did also point out that since 2006 Kinsler leads the Rangers in fWAR, but I have a feeling that he's just become the newest hate figure for fans because he doesn't "hustle".

But yeah, let me know what I've done wrong, best way for me to learn.

[thejetstolehome]

Originally Posted by SamuelJLast

I'll explain the situation, see if you guys can help guide me if I went wrong somewhere and what to learn about, etc.

Basically, discussion is going on about Profar and someone has said trade/move Kinsler and replace him with Profar. I've said that replacing one of the top 2B in the league is a crazy idea, which has been rebutted by the following.

"Kinsler one of the best 2B in the league??? BAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! !!!!!!!!! sorry"

I've responded to him using Fangraphs, showing that since Kinsler's debut in 2006 he's 5th in fWAr, 5th in wOBA, 6th SLG, 8th wRC+, 4th HR (which isn't exactly relevant), and that Kinsler is good defensively (as far as I'm aware he is). I did also point out that since 2006 Kinsler leads the Rangers in fWAR, but I have a feeling that he's just become the newest hate figure for fans because he doesn't "hustle".

But yeah, let me know what I've done wrong, best way for me to learn.

If you show him all the facts and figures and he still doesn't see what you're getting at or just responds with vitriol, then don't bother arguing with him anymore.

[saintnumberfive]

You have to be wizards to understand and look at all those numbers out there for any player. I love baseball, but I will never be able to really grasp all of those stats. Therefor, I've never even tried my hand at fantasy baseball.

[SamuelJLast]

Originally Posted by thejetstolehome

If you show him all the facts and figures and he still doesn't see what you're getting at or just responds with vitriol, then don't bother arguing with him anymore.

Makes sense really.

Originally Posted by saintnumberfive

You have to be wizards to understand and look at all those numbers out there for any player. I love baseball, but I will never be able to really grasp all of those stats. Therefor, I've never even tried my hand at fantasy baseball.

I could never do fantasy baseball, I'm bad enough at fantasy football(soccer) as it is.

[Until The Bombs]

Originally Posted by SamuelJLast

Makes sense really.



I could never do fantasy baseball, I'm bad enough at fantasy football(soccer) as it is.

I agree with Matt. You could ask him to name his top five and compare Kinsler to it, but it sounds like it'd be a futile effort.

I think part of the problem that you're running into is that so much of Kinsler's value rests in baserunning, which can be a more difficult concept for people to wrap their heads around. That he's coming off maybe the worst season of his career at the plate doesn't make things easier.

[blimpcityhero11]

@Ken_Rosenthal Source: #Diamondbacks agree to three-year, $35M extension with second baseman Aaron Hill. First reported by @Buster_ESPN.

Go home, Kevin Towers. You're drunk.

[thejetstolehome]

Originally Posted by saintnumberfive

You have to be wizards to understand and look at all those numbers out there for any player. I love baseball, but I will never be able to really grasp all of those stats. Therefor, I've never even tried my hand at fantasy baseball.

No you don't. I was a horrible math student and got a D+ in stats 101 as a senior in college, but I still understand what these stas do and say, what their limitations are, etc. As for fantasy baseball, you can do that with traditional stats.

[troubledbyinsects]

What the fuck are the Diamondbacks doing

[Scott Weber]

I don't mind the extension. Hill has been fantastic in AZ. He's betting that Hill has turned a corner, but he isn't paying full price if he indeed has. It's kind of like the Bautista extension that the Jays signed. Could blow up in his face and could be a bargain. For the length/price I don't find it unreasonable. The D-Backs are clearly trying to win now.

[troubledbyinsects]

Oh shit. Hill had a 6.2 WAR last year, I genuinely had no idea that happened. Either way, that contract is still probably an overpay considering it's only the second really good season he's had and he put up a stinker the year before.

[thejetstolehome]

I have an irrational distaste for Aaron Hill.

[TachyonEvan]

I feel like the Kershaw and Strasburg contracts are going to be insane.

[Eich696]

Strasburg: $300 million