[dignan]

Originally Posted by imirish06

You do realize that there were stretches in Notre Dames history that were far worse than what's going on now right? And that before Alabama struck gold with Saban they were in 20x the hole that Notre Dame is in right now, right?

I wouldn't say it was 20x worse. It was almost an identical situation. It's not like Alabama was in the complete shitter, they were just losing close games they shouldn't have lost. I think Mike Shula and Charlie Weiss had similar coaching philosophies.

- Both called the plays from the sideline.
- Both were offensive minded guys with success at the NFL level.
- Both coaches had no clue how to lead their team in the 2nd half of a game.
- Both consistently blew their leads by horrible play calling and lack of fundamental defense.
- Both couldn't beat their rivals.
- Both were fired after a 6-6 season.

[imirish06]

I wasn't really talking directly towards Shula. I was talking more of the state of the program from 90 until Saban. Save for Franchione(Spelling?) and Stallings. Anyways, point being, all programs have their ups and downs.

[acfrue]

Originally Posted by imirish06

Crist is a better fit to Kelly's offense than Clausen.

I actually came in here to say that, so its really not all bad that Jimmy left. With Tate leaving it will leave a considerable hole at WR (and a gap in CF when baseball season comes along), but they've still got Floyd, Kamara, and the best TE in the nation.

Originally Posted by Of Dust and Nations

Jones will probably leave...doesn't mean I can't hope and dream anyway. Do you go to Western or something? Haha.

Yeah, I do. You got a problem with that?

[batmannj]

Originally Posted by imirish06

You do realize that there were stretches in Notre Dames history that were far worse than what's going on now right? And that before Alabama struck gold with Saban they were in 20x the hole that Notre Dame is in right now, right?

This whole theory rests on the the possibility that Brian Kelly can be just as good a coach and recruit as well as Saban right? Notre Dame can no longer recruit on the same level that warm weather SEC and Pac-10 teams can, and they play a difficult schedule each year. Sure you get your Navy's and Air Force's that will be in the schedule, and the UConn's, but while Alabama will play Quesdilla Tech School in their non-conference, Notre Dame has to play USC, Michigan, Michigan State, and several other schools that make it unrealistic to expect this team to compete for anything more than the every few years BCS game.

[bigmike]

Originally Posted by batmannj

This whole theory rests on the the possibility that Brian Kelly can be just as good a coach and recruit as well as Saban right? Notre Dame can no longer recruit on the same level that warm weather SEC and Pac-10 teams can, and they play a difficult schedule each year. Sure you get your Navy's and Air Force's that will be in the schedule, and the UConn's, but while Alabama will play Quesdilla Tech School in their non-conference, Notre Dame has to play USC, Michigan, Michigan State, and several other schools that make it unrealistic to expect this team to compete for anything more than the every few years BCS game.

False. Notre dame recruits just fine, consistently being in the top 20 of the recruiting rankings no matter the source. The whole "Notre Dame can't recruit" thing is 100% bunk.

[acfrue]

Originally Posted by batmannj

This whole theory rests on the the possibility that Brian Kelly can be just as good a coach and recruit as well as Saban right? Notre Dame can no longer recruit on the same level that warm weather SEC and Pac-10 teams can, and they play a difficult schedule each year. Sure you get your Navy's and Air Force's that will be in the schedule, and the UConn's, but while Alabama will play Quesdilla Tech School in their non-conference, Notre Dame has to play USC, Michigan, Michigan State, and several other schools that make it unrealistic to expect this team to compete for anything more than the every few years BCS game.

ND has one of the most attractive deals to athletes, they're guaranteed at least 6 or 7 games per year of national television time, not to mention brand new facilities. If anything they are one of the best schools for recruits to look at and they always get a few big 5 star kids every year.

[bigmike]

Much like the "ND can't recruit premium athletes" I think the television contract argument gets overrated, too. I can find nationally televised games of nearly every BCS team. Fuck, I think I saw 3 different Syracuse games this year.

[batmannj]

Originally Posted by bigmike

False. Notre dame recruits just fine, consistently being in the top 20 of the recruiting rankings no matter the source. The whole "Notre Dame can't recruit" thing is 100% bunk.

Yeah. They sure had some impact players on Defense this season...

Originally Posted by acfrue

ND has one of the most attractive deals to athletes, they're guaranteed at least 6 or 7 games per year of national television time, not to mention brand new facilities. If anything they are one of the best schools for recruits to look at and they always get a few big 5 star kids every year.

EVERYONE gets on TV nowadays. Mid-American Conference games get national television all the time. Sure they get some 5 stars, usually on the offensive side of the ball, and they occasional stud that works out. And then they'll got a BCS bowl every once in a while, and they'll get blown out of the water by Oregon State or Ohio State.

[J.C.]

Originally Posted by batmannj

Yeah. They sure had some impact players on Defense this season...

They got the highest rated defense recruit in the class last year in Te'o and had arguably the highest in this year's class (Chris Martin) before Weis got canned. Weis did an okay job getting players who were relatively highly thought of on defense to come to ND(4-stars, generally), but either did a poor job evaluating their talents or did a poor job developing them.

In general, it's probably always going to be easier for a school like Notre Dame to find big offensive recruits than defensive recruits. Just anecdotal evidence on my part, but the players on the defensive side coming out of high school are usually less intelligent than their offensive counterparts. There's less of a likelihood they'll meet ND's academic requirements. I would probably put that as Notre Dame's biggest hurdle recruiting-wise. The fact that they basically rule out a number of guys right off the bat because of academics. That has more to do with them not being able to recruit as well as the Floridas and Texas(es?) of the world than the notion that the big recruits just don't want to go there.

Originally Posted by batmannj

EVERYONE gets on TV nowadays.

Nobody else has (effectively) all their games broadcast on national TV. It is an attractive asset to have when you're trying to lure kids to Notre Dame who live in other parts of the country. Their parents like the idea of getting to see them play each and every weekend.

[we are cured]

Originally Posted by deadkidsean

I wish I didn't live in this city or go to this school at a time like this. People are so fucking irrational and someone literally came on 700WLW this evening when I was driving home and said they hope Brian Kelly, "rots in Hell," for what he has done to UC. Anyone across the country that was offered there dream job at fucking TRIPLE his current salary would not even think about saying no. No way, no how. I feel awful for the players because there is a feeling of betrayal (BK has a radio show on above radio station once a week and said week in, week out that he wouldn't be going anywhere...looked Mardy in the eyes and said this is my home, etc.) but it is a business. Plain and simple. And while yes I said I do feel bad for the players, for them to complain about him just being in it for the money? Biggest fucking joke ever considering some of the ones saying those things (Mary Gilyard) will have a chance to play at the next level with millions waved under their nose and if they were guaranteed millions before this season if they went to the NFL, they would have taken off in a heartbeat. That, and I hate to throw Gilyard's name around again, but he owes his entire career/success to Kelly. Kelly took him out of his car, gave him his scholarship back, gave him the opportunity in this offense. Talk about ungrateful man, what the fuck.


Phew, that was a rant. Prly didn't make sense. Long story short: I'm glad to be back home in Columbus. Tressel drama is much easier to listen to then the irrational fairweather fans in Cincinnati.

good post, i agree 100%

[lostxmyxmind]

Originally Posted by deadkidsean

I wish I didn't live in this city or go to this school at a time like this. People are so fucking irrational and someone literally came on 700WLW this evening when I was driving home and said they hope Brian Kelly, "rots in Hell," for what he has done to UC. Anyone across the country that was offered there dream job at fucking TRIPLE his current salary would not even think about saying no. No way, no how. I feel awful for the players because there is a feeling of betrayal (BK has a radio show on above radio station once a week and said week in, week out that he wouldn't be going anywhere...looked Mardy in the eyes and said this is my home, etc.) but it is a business. Plain and simple. And while yes I said I do feel bad for the players, for them to complain about him just being in it for the money? Biggest fucking joke ever considering some of the ones saying those things (Mary Gilyard) will have a chance to play at the next level with millions waved under their nose and if they were guaranteed millions before this season if they went to the NFL, they would have taken off in a heartbeat. That, and I hate to throw Gilyard's name around again, but he owes his entire career/success to Kelly. Kelly took him out of his car, gave him his scholarship back, gave him the opportunity in this offense. Talk about ungrateful man, what the fuck.


Phew, that was a rant. Prly didn't make sense. Long story short: I'm glad to be back home in Columbus. Tressel drama is much easier to listen to then the irrational fairweather fans in Cincinnati.

I agree with this. Some people are being completely irrational about this. My main problem was just that even after the Pitt game he was not completely honest with the players.
In regards to Gilyard, as you said Kelly turned Gilyard's life around and in a way became like a father figure, so it probably hit him really hard when this guy that he looked up to and trusted left after he said that he would not.

[batmannj]

Originally Posted by J.C.

They got the highest rated defense recruit in the class last year in Te'o and had arguably the highest in this year's class (Chris Martin) before Weis got canned. Weis did an okay job getting players who were relatively highly thought of on defense to come to ND(4-stars, generally), but either did a poor job evaluating their talents or did a poor job developing them.

In general, it's probably always going to be easier for a school like Notre Dame to find big offensive recruits than defensive recruits. Just anecdotal evidence on my part, but the players on the defensive side coming out of high school are usually less intelligent than their offensive counterparts. There's less of a likelihood they'll meet ND's academic requirements. I would probably put that as Notre Dame's biggest hurdle recruiting-wise. The fact that they basically rule out a number of guys right off the bat because of academics. That has more to do with them not being able to recruit as well as the Floridas and Texas(es?) of the world than the notion that the big recruits just don't want to go there.



Nobody else has (effectively) all their games broadcast on national TV. It is an attractive asset to have when you're trying to lure kids to Notre Dame who live in other parts of the country. Their parents like the idea of getting to see them play each and every weekend.

I agree strongly on the first part, and I am still a little so so on the different part. Yes ND does have what I would call better coverage, having your own network is solid, but at the same time, I can watch Florida 8 or 9 times in the year.

[bigmike]

Originally Posted by batmannj

Yeah. They sure had some impact players on Defense this season...


EVERYONE gets on TV nowadays. Mid-American Conference games get national television all the time. Sure they get some 5 stars, usually on the offensive side of the ball, and they occasional stud that works out. And then they'll got a BCS bowl every once in a while, and they'll get blown out of the water by Oregon State or Ohio State.

Considering that their defense is immensely young, I wouldn't be surprised if that defense drastically improves next year. Of course all of that would be attributed to Kelly just like Weis got the love when he won with Brady Quinn.

[BroNamath]

they need to retool the offensive line, but have a staple of good running backs coming back plus floyd, if crist is healthy they should still have a pretty explosive offense

[J.C.]

Originally Posted by dignan

Not much will change. I see ND recruiting blue chip QB's and WR's and not giving two shits about having a good defense. They will continue to lose to ranked opponenets and will be looking for a new coach five years from now.

Great call, DooDooBird.