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07:24 AM on 01/16/13 
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OctoberOrigins
Social Justice Whale
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Omaha, NE
Genderfluid - 22 Years Old
First I have to say this post you did is a good argument .
Second, I must say I'm using a different definition to the word "brainwashing" than the official definition. By "brainwashing" I mean when a person has allowed something else to change their belief on something. Since I know no other word that better fits the definition I'm using, I just use the word brainwashing because it's the closest I know.
Thirdly, I am convinced, through alleged psychological science to back this claim and self-evidence experience supporting it, that emotions are caused by our belief systems, therefore, if we change our beliefs we will change our emotional reactions. For example, if we believe all girls have cooties if they kiss us, we will feel fear and repulsion every time they pucker up and chase us. But when we get older and we believe the cootie myth isn't true, we don't feel fear, and combined with hormones, we feel attraction and/or lust instead. We can convince ourselves that we are attracted to men or women or trans, and we will feel the emotions. If we like pretty girls because they are pretty, and we meet a guy that is pretty, we will probably feel the same, and those who are taught that being gay is wrong and also felt attraction to that guy will get angry because they feel they were tricked and usually they call them "******!". Also, good experiences can make people want more good experiences(whether is with the same or opposite gender) and bad experiences can make people want to avoid the same situation(whether it was with the same or opposite gender).
Fourth, people will do extreme things just from their beliefs alone. Look at the guy who said he predicted the rapture with numerology and spent over a million dollars just to advertise it on tv, when he was obviously wrong more than once, or radical muslims who blow themselves up to kill others. People will be willing to have a hard life if they believe they are born that way. Fifth, my argument also states that being heterosexual came by brainwashing and by choice, so my argument doesn't make being homosexual look worse or "fixable" no more than being heterosexual. I also believe its the same with being right and left handed, you get used to one and then don't see why you should go back, I don't believe people are born right or left-handed either its all brainwashing.

"I don't believe"

Believing something doesn't make it true. Unless you have a real argument, don't bother quoting this.
07:25 AM on 01/16/13 
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luckykaruba
Jazz Baby
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Female - 29 Years Old

Told you so.
07:31 AM on 01/16/13 
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loveisdead
LGJ
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Long Island
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Yeah, you weren't kidding.
08:12 AM on 01/16/13 
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Esrb99
The Pertinacious Papist
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Rolla, Missouri
Male - 25 Years Old
I was being sarcastic.

Your point is true. Organized religion has seen a sharper decline compared to faith in God.

Yes and no... there's a decline in the megachurch, protestantized anything's okay crowd, with people there saying they are 'spiritual but not religious'

However at the same time, people are leaving the same megachurch, coffeeshop church scenes and rediscovering true orthodoxy.

See this article at the Economist: http://www.economist.com/news/intern...st-avant-garde

Quote:
The traditionalist revival is a reaction against the “trendy liberalism” of this generation. Some swings of pendulums may be inevitable. But for a church hierarchy in Western countries beset by scandal and decline, the rise of a traditionalist avant-garde is unsettling. Is it merely an outcrop of eccentricity, or a sign that the church took a wrong turn 50 years ago?
02:17 PM on 01/16/13 
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tonyC4L
tech-savvy at-risk youth
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San Francisco, CA
Male - 26 Years Old
how about "everyone is born asexual" I'd like to see someone prove that wrong, seeing as young children aren't "naturally" sexual with each other, so they can't be gay or straight or in-between, they have to be asexual.
That's because sexuality doesn't come out until adolescence dude. Children don't experience that, they're too early on in development, doesn't mean it's not there to be expressed later. Some kids have it in them that they will go bald by age 40, doesn't mean they have to start losing hair when they're 5.

Also, you keep using "asexuality" kinda incorrectly. Asexuality is an orientation like heterosexuality, bisexuality, etc. It's a lack of sexual attraction (but does not preclude one from having romantic feelings), not a state that exists before someone becomes sexual.
02:57 PM on 01/16/13 
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Ryan Dennehy
______________
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Connecticut
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Misfits has had a productive 18 posts.
03:19 PM on 01/16/13 
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zion the lion
pull over that ass is too fat.
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Female - 22 Years Old
That's because sexuality doesn't come out until adolescence dude. Children don't experience that, they're too early on in development, doesn't mean it's not there to be expressed later. Some kids have it in them that they will go bald by age 40, doesn't mean they have to start losing hair when they're 5.

Also, you keep using "asexuality" kinda incorrectly. Asexuality is an orientation like heterosexuality, bisexuality, etc. It's a lack of sexual attraction (but does not preclude one from having romantic feelings), not a state that exists before someone becomes sexual.

I don't know if it's entirely true that sexuality doesn't come out until adolescence.
03:27 PM on 01/16/13 
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tonyC4L
tech-savvy at-risk youth
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San Francisco, CA
Male - 26 Years Old
I don't know if it's entirely true that sexuality doesn't come out until adolescence.
Whoops, brain fart. Meant puberty, around age 10. I was basically trying to convey that because children aren't sexual doesn't mean that they are "asexual."
03:44 PM on 01/16/13 
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zion the lion
pull over that ass is too fat.
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Female - 22 Years Old
Whoops, brain fart. Meant puberty, around age 10. I was basically trying to convey that because children aren't sexual doesn't mean that they are "asexual."

I think kids start exploring and figuring out who they are sexually pretty early. At least I did and so did a lot of people I knew when I was younger. I don't know if that's normal though now that I think about it.
03:59 PM on 01/16/13 
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Ryan Dennehy
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Pretty sure sexuality isn't some magic quality that comes out of left field when you hit puberty.
10:35 AM on 01/17/13 
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sjb2k1
archersaurus
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the bull city
Female - 32 Years Old
We can convince ourselves that we are attracted to men or women or trans, and we will feel the emotions. If we like pretty girls because they are pretty, and we meet a guy that is pretty, we will probably feel the same, and those who are taught that being gay is wrong and also felt attraction to that guy will get angry because they feel they were tricked and usually they call them "******!". Also, good experiences can make people want more good experiences(whether is with the same or opposite gender) and bad experiences can make people want to avoid the same situation(whether it was with the same or opposite gender).
seriously? i can tell when a man is attractive, but he's not attractive to me. in high school i started dating a boy i could see was cute, but when i kissed him i literally felt sick and trapped inside. i have never once felt that when kissing a woman. it wasn't about good or bad experiences. "joe" was a nice, charming fun young man. we're still friends to this day. i just have no sexual attraction to men. it's not there. women do it for me.

you sound pretty naive/ignorant right now.
09:16 PM on 01/17/13 
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MisfitsFan2013
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"I don't believe"

Believing something doesn't make it true. Unless you have a real argument, don't bother quoting this.

Theories aren't facts unlike many people who treat them as so. But theories with more evidence or strong evidence are "better" than theories without evidence or with less evidence.
I'll tell you why "I don't believe" people are born right or left handed. I've been playing guitar now for over a decade right handed, seeing as my right hand is my dominant hand. I then once tried flipping it over to play it like Jimmy Hendrix did. As I was teaching myself I realized something that is contradictory to the THEORY that people are "born" right or left handed. My left hand's fingers were better at finger-picking than my right hand's fingers, and my right hand's fingers were way slower and less coordinated playing on the frets than my left hand. And my left wrist is slower at picking than my right wrist. But I write better with my right hand. This didn't make sense until I changed my belief system to believe people aren't born that way... now it makes more sense. I now believe because I've been using those specific muscles more and longer, they are better than the ones I haven't used as much.
More "evidence" that more solidified my belief in this Not-born theory is this: I know a guy who was right-handed, but lost his right hand in a work accident. He was in my English class and had to take a TIMED writing exam with his left hand - his non-dominant hand. And he succeeded and is now just as good with his left hand as he was with his right hand.
Also I have asked several left-handed and ambidextrous people if they agree with this theory and they do and usually have some first-hand experience that they tell me about to more support this theory.
That is why "I don't believe" people are born right or left handed.
Some kids have it in them that they will go bald by age 40, doesn't mean they have to start losing hair when they're 5.

I agree with you about the balding, belief is not the root of all physical states and changes, but belief IS the root of all actions. Things like kissing, touching, and further are intimate actions, therefore intimate actions are rooted in belief, therefore sexuality is caused by belief alone. If something else has just changed your belief on something, then you have just been brainwashed(by my definition) which is not always a bad thing. All sexuality is either by choice or by brainwashing. Also, brainwashing(by my definition) is extremely difficult to overcome once you realize what it is. So having a healthy cynicism and assuming people will not choose the difficult path to overcome it, I realize it's better to assume brainwashing isn't a choice. Being straight is no exception, neither is believing in a religion, or the way a person is raised, these are all brainwashing. This is one big reason WHY we SHOULD have freedom of religion, freedom of sexual orientation, freedom of attraction, freedom of marriage, and probably more.
seriously? i can tell when a man is attractive, but he's not attractive to me. in high school i started dating a boy i could see was cute, but when i kissed him i literally felt sick and trapped inside. i have never once felt that when kissing a woman. it wasn't about good or bad experiences. "joe" was a nice, charming fun young man. we're still friends to this day. i just have no sexual attraction to men. it's not there. women do it for me.

I appreciate that you took the time to share this first-hand information. I believe arguments like you gave are probably the best since it is self-evident to anyone who reads it.
As I read your story, the first thing that popped into my head was beer. As an analogy. I remember the first time I drank beer it tasted awful, made my stomach uncomfortably warm, and it made me kind of jittery. I've never felt that when I drank water or juice. I still to this day won't even take a sip of beer. Water and juice does it for me. But what amazes me is the number of people who drink a lot of beer. Surely beer gives good experiences if so many people drink it a lot, otherwise why would they drink it if it never gave them a good experience? Maybe everyone who drank beer(or in your case, everyone who kissed a guy for the first time) had a bad experience the first time, but didn't let them stop the next time, or the next, or the next. Like an acquired taste. I had the same exact experience you did with kissing a guy and kissing a girl, kissing the girl felt so right, and kissing the guy was kinda scary and uncomfortable.... the first few times. And then my negative emotional response became desensitized over time and it turned into positive emotions through enough effort and a change in my belief system. I bet it was the same(or at least VERY similar) with people who now love drinking lots of beer.
09:22 PM on 01/17/13 
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sjb2k1
archersaurus
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the bull city
Female - 32 Years Old
Theories aren't facts unlike many people who treat them as so. But theories with more evidence or strong evidence are "better" than theories without evidence or with less evidence.
I'll tell you why "I don't believe" people are born right or left handed. I've been playing guitar now for over a decade right handed, seeing as my right hand is my dominant hand. I then once tried flipping it over to play it like Jimmy Hendrix did. As I was teaching myself I realized something that is contradictory to the THEORY that people are "born" right or left handed. My left hand's fingers were better at finger-picking than my right hand's fingers, and my right hand's fingers were way slower and less coordinated playing on the frets than my left hand. And my left wrist is slower at picking than my right wrist. But I write better with my right hand. This didn't make sense until I changed my belief system to believe people aren't born that way... now it makes more sense. I now believe because I've been using those specific muscles more and longer, they are better than the ones I haven't used as much.
More "evidence" that more solidified my belief in this Not-born theory is this: I know a guy who was right-handed, but lost his right hand in a work accident. He was in my English class and had to take a TIMED writing exam with his left hand - his non-dominant hand. And he succeeded and is now just as good with his left hand as he was with his right hand.
Also I have asked several left-handed and ambidextrous people if they agree with this theory and they do and usually have some first-hand experience that they tell me about to more support this theory.
That is why "I don't believe" people are born right or left handed.

I agree with you about the balding, belief is not the root of all physical states and changes, but belief IS the root of all actions. Things like kissing, touching, and further are intimate actions, therefore intimate actions are rooted in belief, therefore sexuality is caused by belief alone. If something else has just changed your belief on something, then you have just been brainwashed(by my definition) which is not always a bad thing. All sexuality is either by choice or by brainwashing. Also, brainwashing(by my definition) is extremely difficult to overcome once you realize what it is. So having a healthy cynicism and assuming people will not choose the difficult path to overcome it, I realize it's better to assume brainwashing isn't a choice. Being straight is no exception, neither is believing in a religion, or the way a person is raised, these are all brainwashing. This is one big reason WHY we SHOULD have freedom of religion, freedom of sexual orientation, freedom of attraction, freedom of marriage, and probably more.

I appreciate that you took the time to share this first-hand information. I believe arguments like you gave are probably the best since it is self-evident to anyone who reads it.
As I read your story, the first thing that popped into my head was beer. As an analogy. I remember the first time I drank beer it tasted awful, made my stomach uncomfortably warm, and it made me kind of jittery. I've never felt that when I drank water or juice. I still to this day won't even take a sip of beer. Water and juice does it for me. But what amazes me is the number of people who drink a lot of beer. Surely beer gives good experiences if so many people drink it a lot, otherwise why would they drink it if it never gave them a good experience? Maybe everyone who drank beer(or in your case, everyone who kissed a guy for the first time) had a bad experience the first time, but didn't let them stop the next time, or the next, or the next. Like an acquired taste. I had the same exact experience you did with kissing a guy and kissing a girl, kissing the girl felt so right, and kissing the guy was kinda scary and uncomfortable.... the first few times. And then my negative emotional response became desensitized over time and it turned into positive emotions through enough effort and a change in my belief system. I bet it was the same(or at least VERY similar) with people who now love drinking lots of beer.
perhaps i wasn't clear, but let me expound - i dated more than one guy, or tried to, kissed/been with more than one guy and EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. it felt wrong. and EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. i have ever kissed/been with or dated a girl, it felt right. it's not about an acquired taste. it's not a choice. it's just how it is.
09:32 PM on 01/17/13 
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MisfitsFan2013
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perhaps i wasn't clear, but let me expound - i dated more than one guy, or tried to, kissed/been with more than one guy and EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. it felt wrong. and EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. i have ever kissed/been with or dated a girl, it felt right. it's not about an acquired taste. it's not a choice. it's just how it is.

I've drank more than one beer/wine and every single time it tastes bad and feels bad. Would you agree that people are born to be beer drinkers?
09:33 PM on 01/17/13 
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Theseventhson
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NYC
Male - 22 Years Old
I've drank more than one beer/wine and every single time it tastes bad and feels bad. Would you agree that people are born to be beer drinkers?

Did you type this up and think 'gee, this is a great rebuttal'?



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