[Dean Wormer]

Originally Posted by we are cured

our increase in temperature over the last 100 years is actually something like 5% higher than what is normal, which is (perhaps) the largest estimated increase in history.

Good...the Midwest will soon have the best weather in the nation.

[we are cured]

Originally Posted by Dean Wormer

Good...the Midwest will soon have the best weather in the nation.

Haha I've been saying, let's warm up Jersey and turn it into the tropics.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally Posted by we are cured

Well I agree, but one of the main problems is that even if you present proven science, it takes awhile for the public to accept it as such. Am I saying that there is enough evidence to say the world is getting warmer because of us? No. But even if there was, polls wouldn't reflect the true role of global warming issues in our lives.

'Evidence' of past temperatures and climate situations are estimates, and cannot be used in true scientific manner.

I agree that any controversial theory has to be given time to become mainstream and accepted, particularly in such an independent minded country like the US. But people aren't stupid either, if a valid case, with valid evidence to support it, is made for a theory they would look at open mindedly. But the problem that most who want to espouse this theory is they think its the public's responsibility to just buy into it, when in all actuality its the espousers responsibility to sell it to the public in a reasonable manner.


Exact temperature are one thing, we don’t even have those from most of the 1800’s, but we do have written documentation about how people lived and what they ate, which gives a very reliable representation of what the climate was like back then. That can be used to compare to current situations.

[justinevans]

Originally Posted by richter915

where the hell is China on that list? If you look at % increase I'm willing to bet they're ahead of the US...but in terms of pure tons emitted the US will always top other nations and Americans will probably think it's cause we're the best country so we can do as we wish.

also, Americans will disregard ur source because tonnes is not spelled in the American English way therefore it's foreign, therefore it's communist, therefore your graph supports terrorism.

hahah

[justinevans]

Originally Posted by we are cured

yes i hate my country!!! fuck bush!!! fuck the republicans!!

obviously we don't 'hate America,' we just like to push for a positive change. if you just sit on your ass and think, "i'm free and the grass is green, this place is great, anybody who hates our government is a terrorist," you're oblivious to the fact that this is a changing world and that America (more specifically the government of America), as the leader of trade and global economy, should take some fucking responsibility for what it is doing to the environment.

that's what's great about liberals...we are smart enough to know that things do change, and that we are not always right. but we start the fights and arguments that lead to female voting rights, the abolition of slavery, and greater civil rights.

edit: if someone says anything about classic liberals, i will freak. i mean liberals in today's sense of the word.

yeah but most of the time people are just doing that...pushing for a change by not in an effective manner.

Abraham Lincoln was the first president of the Republican party. Things changed. The parties ideas have changed numerous times.

However, I agree things need to be done, but the people pushing have to try to be more effective than just holding a rally in a park.

[justinevans]

Originally Posted by we are cured

ah the classic retort...'all you do is point fingers, where are the solutions.' this post isn't in reference to climate change but..

first: slowly decrease troop commitment in Iraq (I have a buddy over there and regardless of what the administration will say, we are not making any difference - only losing our grip as we try to train forces that are scared to fight more powerful militias)

second: balance the budget before you worry about banning online gambling. which leads to..

third: don't put items in the budget that you can't pay for (like somebody pointed out for me in another thread: the border fence)

fourth: elect somebody based on merit. when bush fucks up the domestic economy (1.2 trillion projected 2010 surplus to -800 billion projected deficit) as bad as he did from 2000-2004, he shouldn't be allowed back in office. oh wait - his opponent 'flip flopped.'

there are so many more...and in reference to the bold statement...it is SO much easier to sit on your ass and be oblivious to the world around you.

You really don't know if a difference can be made. Our country is full of yellow media and it is constantly spun to provide what the majority wants to hear. If more people approved of the war, you'd hear about the good things we may be doing there.

With regards to the economy, I know he spent more than he should have, however the economy IS a cycle. Clinton benefited extremely from the tech stock boom. Our economy's problems benefited greatly to the tech stock's crash. People invested alot more during Clinton's terms because everything seemed to be a sure thing, but everything had an extremely high P/E ratio and their were very low barriers to enter the market. The high profits the companies saw at first dwindled as soon as competition came around.

With regards to the troops, we can't just pull out. Look at places where we went to war in the past. We still have bases there and a large number of troops. Do you remember the world cup game in Germany where the US troops filled a large portion of the stadium.

The problem with politics is that everything we see as an effect we blame that politician in office now. We don't ultimately look at every cause. Causes that could have existed 20 years prior to now. People will blame Bush for Global Warming, but no president has really touched the issue for how long it has been a problem. Also what is the "tonnes per capita" I think that would be a truer number.

[justinevans]

I mean look at the spin meteorologists try to spin this year with how Global Warming was the cause for the hurricanes last year and that it would continue.

I'm sorry, I missed out on all the hurricanes.

Also, you have people that want to help our poor, help the world poor, and save the world? All very costly things. I don't care who is president. If you're going to do all of that, you will never run a surplus.

Clinton ran a surplus because the economy was in a rise and he was a lame duck.

[loveisdead]

Wonderful. I've never bumped a thread so old.

Despite the ridiculous amount of snow I (and the rest of the northeast) has seen, this may become the warmest winter on record.

[caveBEAR]

Is debate on this seriously still an issue? I'm not talking about who did it, or what to do about it, just is it really still debated on whether the climate is changing?

[loveisdead]

Originally Posted by BEERfortheBEAR

Is debate on this seriously still an issue? I'm not talking about who did it, or what to do about it, just is it really still debated on whether the climate is changing?

You haven't seen one snarky facebook status about the "foot of irony on Obama's front lawn?" I certainly think people deny it.

[caveBEAR]

Originally Posted by loveisdead

You haven't seen one snarky facebook status about the "foot of irony on Obama's front lawn?" I certainly think people deny it.

That's absurd. I don't know how anyone with average or above average intelligence can deny now that the climate is changing, and that the burning of fossil fuels has at least something to do with it.

[loveisdead]

Originally Posted by BEERfortheBEAR

That's absurd. I don't know how anyone with average or above average intelligence can deny now that the climate is changing, and that the burning of fossil fuels has at least something to do with it.

I'm willing to bet you'll see a few of those people show up here in the not to distant future.

[bard]

i don't think the majority of people believe that it doesn't exist at all, it's just that most of those people don't think it's a big deal. that's the issue really.

[caveBEAR]

Originally Posted by bard

i don't think the majority of people believe that it doesn't exist at all, it's just that most of those people don't think it's a big deal. that's the issue really.

Especially since the end results don't even sound threatening. A two degree temperature rise doesn't sound all that extreme to people who don't understand the ramifications of that rise.

[bard]

Originally Posted by BEERfortheBEAR

Especially since the end results don't even sound threatening. A two degree temperature rise doesn't sound all that extreme to people who don't understand the ramifications of that rise.

yeah, and the fact that they won't be alive to deal with the ramifications anyways. kind of 'out of sight, out of mind' issue.