AbsolutePunk.net
   Username
Password
This Thread is Closed.
 
Share
03:17 PM on 02/23/12 
Offline
User Info.
cshadows2887
cshadows2887's Avatar
Boston, MA
Male - 27 Years Old
Verified
Interesting article on the bias against second basemen in scouting/prospect ranking:

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...second-basemen
03:24 PM on 02/23/12 
Offline
User Info.
CubbyNick42
@NickDevlin
CubbyNick42's Avatar
Atlanta, GA
Male - 28 Years Old
HE'S INNOCENT MOTHERFUCKERS!!!

ajlsdfl;ksdfjgajklsghkl;sfjkladsfjk lf
03:48 PM on 02/23/12 
Offline
User Info.
Drew Beringer
Senior Editor | @drewberinger | Locked Groove
Drew Beringer's Avatar
Male - 28 Years Old
Staff Member


okay I'm done for now, just incredibly giddy as one could imagine haha
04:00 PM on 02/23/12 
Offline
User Info.
TachyonEvan
Batman, for example, and Magellan.
TachyonEvan's Avatar
Chicago
Male
Yeah because winning is always easier after you lose the second greatest player in your franchise's history lol



Pujols was definitely not the second-greatest player in Cardinals history...

And either way, we're much more well-rounded this year, and Milwaukee's without their superstar 1st baseman, too.
04:03 PM on 02/23/12 
Offline
User Info.
Drew Beringer
Senior Editor | @drewberinger | Locked Groove
Drew Beringer's Avatar
Male - 28 Years Old
Staff Member


Pujols was definitely not the second-greatest player in Cardinals history...

And either way, we're much more well-rounded this year, and Milwaukee's without their superstar 1st baseman, too.
The Cardinals are counting on injury prone guys in Berkman, Beltran, and Holliday to anchor that lineup, no one knows if Berkman can replicate last year's season and we'll see how well Wainwright recovers from TJ surgery. The Brewers got better on defense, still have a killer offense, a better bullpen this year, and has the best pitching staff in the Central. It's gonna be a close race again, but it's not going to be "easier" for the Cardinals to win it this year. Prince was a great first baseman but he wasn't the best player on the team, there are probably 4 players on the Brewers right now more valuable than Prince.
04:03 PM on 02/23/12 
Offline
User Info.
VoiceoffCamera
Registered User
VoiceoffCamera's Avatar
NJ
Male - 30 Years Old
If the pee sits, you must acquit
04:09 PM on 02/23/12 
Offline
User Info.
cshadows2887
cshadows2887's Avatar
Boston, MA
Male - 27 Years Old
Verified


Pujols was definitely not the second-greatest player in Cardinals history...

And either way, we're much more well-rounded this year, and Milwaukee's without their superstar 1st baseman, too.

He's prob 4th behind Hornsby, Gibson and Musial.
04:13 PM on 02/23/12 
Offline
User Info.
Broken Parachute
...and somehow I survived
Broken Parachute's Avatar
Staten Island, NY
Male - 24 Years Old


Pujols was definitely not the second-greatest player in Cardinals history...

And either way, we're much more well-rounded this year, and Milwaukee's without their superstar 1st baseman, too.
04:20 PM on 02/23/12 
Offline
User Info.
TachyonEvan
Batman, for example, and Magellan.
TachyonEvan's Avatar
Chicago
Male
The Cardinals are counting on injury prone guys in Berkman, Beltran, and Holliday to anchor that lineup, no one knows if Berkman can replicate last year's season and we'll see how well Wainwright recovers from TJ surgery. The Brewers got better on defense, still have a killer offense, a better bullpen this year, and has the best pitching staff in the Central.


Well, Bill James disagrees with you on that last point:

Milwaukee: (IP, FIP)
Yovani Gallardo (203, 3.31)
Zack Greinke (202, 3.23)
Randy Wolf (217, 4.36)
Shaun Marcum (207, 4.01)
Chris Narveson (133, 4.24)

St. Louis: (IP, FIP)
Chris Carpenter (216, 3.25)
Adam Wainwright (209, 3.24)
Jaime Garcia (183, 3.47)
Kyle Lohse (170, 4.09)
Jake Westbrook (183, 4.35)

Cardinals weren't far behind Brewers last year - eighth best pitching staff in MLB to Milwaukee's fourth - and we've made enough improvements that I'm honestly not worried. Full seasons in high-leverage roles for Jason Motte, Eduardo Sanchez, Fernando Salas, Lance Lynn, and Marc Rzepczynski? Boggs revamping his system? Plus, opportunities for Linebrink and Kyle McClellan to make the bullpen? Honestly, Cardinals pitching hasn't looked better in quite a while.

Quote:
It's gonna be a close race again, but it's not going to be "easier" for the Cardinals to win it this year. Prince was a great first baseman but he wasn't the best player on the team, there are probably 4 players on the Brewers right now more valuable than Prince.

Furthermore, Pujols managed a 5.1 WAR last year, while Prince racked up 5.5. I really feel like Prince's departure impacts more than Albert's. I'm honestly not worried at all with him being gone. Lance Berkman plays better at 1st than he does in the OF. The numbers are there. Plus, everything's looking great for Wainright so far.

By no means am I considering the NL Central a "lock." It's gonna be a close race for sure. I don't think the Reds are is in it as everyone seems to want them to be, but honestly I'm feeling better about our chances at the division than I was last year. Braun being back kind of throws a wrench in some of my predictions, but it's okay. Not like he was ACTUALLY the most valuable player in the NL last year anyway, haha.
04:22 PM on 02/23/12 
Offline
User Info.
TachyonEvan
Batman, for example, and Magellan.
TachyonEvan's Avatar
Chicago
Male

He's prob 4th behind Hornsby, Gibson and Musial.

I'd put Gibson, OZZIE SMITH, Musial, Hornsby, and Dizzy Dean all ahead of Pujols...

EDIT: I'd put Mark McGwire there, too, but most people wouldn't.
04:23 PM on 02/23/12 
Offline
User Info.
Until The Bombs
@_johnleary
Until The Bombs's Avatar
West Chester, PA
Male - 29 Years Old
rWAR through first 11 seasons:

Pujols: 88.7
Hornsby: 86.2
Musial: 82.0
Bob Gibson: 59.5
04:23 PM on 02/23/12 
Offline
User Info.
rcrook
Damage Control
rcrook's Avatar
lol ozzie smith
04:27 PM on 02/23/12 
Offline
User Info.
Drew Beringer
Senior Editor | @drewberinger | Locked Groove
Drew Beringer's Avatar
Male - 28 Years Old
Staff Member
Well, Bill James disagrees with you on that last point:

Milwaukee: (IP, FIP)
Yovani Gallardo (203, 3.31)
Zack Greinke (202, 3.23)
Randy Wolf (217, 4.36)
Shaun Marcum (207, 4.01)
Chris Narveson (133, 4.24)

St. Louis: (IP, FIP)
Chris Carpenter (216, 3.25)
Adam Wainwright (209, 3.24)
Jaime Garcia (183, 3.47)
Kyle Lohse (170, 4.09)
Jake Westbrook (183, 4.35)

Cardinals weren't far behind Brewers last year - eighth best pitching staff in MLB to Milwaukee's fourth - and we've made enough improvements that I'm honestly not worried. Full seasons in high-leverage roles for Jason Motte, Eduardo Sanchez, Fernando Salas, Lance Lynn, and Marc Rzepczynski? Boggs revamping his system? Plus, opportunities for Linebrink and Kyle McClellan to make the bullpen? Honestly, Cardinals pitching hasn't looked better in quite a while.



Furthermore, Pujols managed a 5.1 WAR last year, while Prince racked up 5.5. I really feel like Prince's departure impacts more than Albert's. I'm honestly not worried at all with him being gone. Lance Berkman plays better at 1st than he does in the OF. The numbers are there. Plus, everything's looking great for Wainright so far.

By no means am I considering the NL Central a "lock." It's gonna be a close race for sure. I don't think the Reds are is in it as everyone seems to want them to be, but honestly I'm feeling better about our chances at the division than I was last year. Braun being back kind of throws a wrench in some of my predictions, but it's okay. Not like he was ACTUALLY the most valuable player in the NL last year anyway, haha.
Bill James can suck a dick, I'll be very surprised if Marcum's ERA is over 4 this year.

and I know you didn't say it was a lock, you said it would be easier for them, which I called out as bullshit, you don't lose your best player and then it becomes easier to win a division, don't change the initial meaning of your original post.

If Gamel has a fWAR of at least 1.7 this year and Aramis Ramirez and Alex Gonzalez replicate their fWAR from 2011, that'll be greater than the combined fWAR of Prince, McGehee, and Betancourt. I'm not worried about the Brewers just as you aren't worried about the Cardinals, which is fine, no one was saying they should be concerned, but no one else is going around saying bullshit statements that it's gonna be "easier" to win the division.
04:27 PM on 02/23/12 
Offline
User Info.
cshadows2887
cshadows2887's Avatar
Boston, MA
Male - 27 Years Old
Verified
rWAR through first 11 seasons:

Pujols: 88.7
Hornsby: 86.2
Musial: 82.0
Bob Gibson: 59.5

I give Musial and Gibson the edge because they continued their greatness with the Cardinals for longer (22 and 17 seasons, respectively). Never realized Hornsby only spent 10 there. I can see someone putting Pujols ahead of him, I guess.
04:27 PM on 02/23/12 
Offline
User Info.
RyanFTW
ATTACK POP PUNK
RyanFTW's Avatar
Cotati, CA
Male - 27 Years Old
I can't wait to sit in the Left Field Stands at AT&T Park this year and ask him if his crotch itches. That's the only reason I wanted to go to the Brews/Giants series in the first place.
 



NEWS, MUSIC & MORE
Search News
Release Dates
Exclusives
Best New Music
Submit News
CONNECT
Forums
Contests
RSS
Mobile Version
Banners, Flyers, Widgets
HIDDEN TREASURES
Free Music
Video News
Sports Forum
AP.net Related News
Recommendations
INFORMATION
FAQ
Contact Us
Copyright Policy
Terms of Service
Privacy Policy
FOLLOW
Twitter | Facebook
PropertyOfZack
PunkNews.org
UnderTheGun
Chorus.fm