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05:07 PM on 10/05/12 
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jawstheme
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That didn't happen in Libya, though, which is the comparison we took issue with. Nobody has said Obama isn't as bad as Bush when it comes to drones. And I think there is something to be said in Obama's successful attempts to end both wars, considering his opponents year after year would extend both wars indefinitely.

When it comes to drones, Obama's a douchebag. But after next year that won't even be happening anymore.

When it comes to basic civil rights he's a douche also, i.e. the handling of Bradley Manning and executing a 16 year old american without trial.

But to the bolded, what do you mean? Has he vowed to stop or something?
05:07 PM on 10/05/12 
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crackedthesky
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In totally unrelated news, I picked up Green Day's new album today. I'm a little disappointed at how safe they played it, but it's just so catchy and fun, I can't stay mad at it.
05:07 PM on 10/05/12 
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Broken Parachute
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And to play devil's advocate advocate, this is true because those decisions I think are mostly the military convincing the president that this is the only way, and as you said, Obama kept a lot of the Bush military guys in place.
It didn't help that Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton were both in favor of the wars.
05:11 PM on 10/05/12 
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crackedthesky
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When it comes to basic civil rights he's a douche also, i.e. the handling of Bradley Manning and executing a 16 year old american without trial.

But to the bolded, what do you mean? Has he vowed to stop or something?

Scheduled withdrawal from Afghanistan by the end of next year.

Wasn't aware he executed a 16 year old, link please?

I have less sympathy for Manning than the general media seems to. Probably because they conveniently always leave out how he was deemed mentally unfit for service and charged with attacking fellow soldiers multiple times. Not to say he deserved the complete overreaction he got, but I don't really blame Obama for the military doing that to him, I'm more somewhat annoyed that Obama did nothing to stop it and verbally defended it.

But more or less I agree, Obama has been terrible on civil rights. I'm hoping social issues like that take a stronger role in his second term.
05:12 PM on 10/05/12 
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crackedthesky
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It didn't help that Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton were both in favor of the wars.

Yeah, but to be fair if Obama was restricted to cabinet members who weren't, he wouldn't have a cabinet. Almost everyone was in favor of the wars.
05:12 PM on 10/05/12 
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David87
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It's not that Birdman's views are something we disagree with and that's why he got banned either.....if that were the case, guys like Nuns on a Bus, Carolina Alex, even MyBestFriend or BrokenParachute, etc would all be banned.

He just has a problem with having a factual conversation. When people disprove his beliefs, he completely ignores it. I think he's proven a few times now that he just doesn't read complete posts...he'll read part of it, pick out a sentence, and post a link from the Heritage Foundation...while at the same time claiming other sources have bias.
05:14 PM on 10/05/12 
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Broken Parachute
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Scheduled withdrawal from Afghanistan by the end of next year.

Wasn't aware he executed a 16 year old, link please?

I have less sympathy for Manning than the general media seems to. Probably because they conveniently always leave out how he was deemed mentally unfit for service and charged with attacking fellow soldiers multiple times. Not to say he deserved the complete overreaction he got, but I don't really blame Obama for the military doing that to him, I'm more somewhat annoyed that Obama did nothing to stop it and verbally defended it.

But more or less I agree, Obama has been terrible on civil rights. I'm hoping social issues like that take a stronger role in his second term.


http://www.salon.com/2011/10/20/the_...ear_old_ son/
05:16 PM on 10/05/12 
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Broken Parachute
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I rescinded my hyperbole about Bush and Obama. Birdman would never do that, haha. When he isn't talking about politics, I like him though. Unfortunately he can't have a normal conversation.
05:16 PM on 10/05/12 
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perceptrons
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I don't get the Birdman ban. Did he do anything out of the ordinary? He seemed like he always is.
05:16 PM on 10/05/12 
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crackedthesky
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I remember that now. That's another extremely shady one, and I won't try to defend him on it.
05:17 PM on 10/05/12 
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jawstheme
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Scheduled withdrawal from Afghanistan by the end of next year.

Wasn't aware he executed a 16 year old, link please?

I have less sympathy for Manning than the general media seems to. Probably because they conveniently always leave out how he was deemed mentally unfit for service and charged with attacking fellow soldiers multiple times. Not to say he deserved the complete overreaction he got, but I don't really blame Obama for the military doing that to him, I'm more somewhat annoyed that Obama did nothing to stop it and verbally defended it.

But more or less I agree, Obama has been terrible on civil rights. I'm hoping social issues like that take a stronger role in his second term.

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politic...death-10470891 Edit: I see you already got a link. I don't mean to be redundant.

Some of the worst drone strikes have been in Pakistan though. I'm not sure that a withdrawal is going to stop them.

And the Bradley Manning thing is something I guess people can be opinionated about based on his character. But the point to me is that he appeared to be punished before he was tried.
05:18 PM on 10/05/12 
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Broken Parachute
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I remember that now. That's another extremely shady one, and I won't try to defend him on it.
Both he and his father being killed leaves a rally bad taste in my mouth and no one really ever talks about it because it isn't a typical 'talking point.'

Just like the thing with Eric Holder being let off by the department he runs. Shady, but no one really talks about it or cares.
05:22 PM on 10/05/12 
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jawstheme
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Critical discussion of Obama and birdman isn't around to see it. shame.
05:22 PM on 10/05/12 
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perceptrons
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It's not that Birdman's views are something we disagree with and that's why he got banned either.....if that were the case, guys like Nuns on a Bus, Carolina Alex, even MyBestFriend or BrokenParachute, etc would all be banned.

He just has a problem with having a factual conversation. When people disprove his beliefs, he completely ignores it. I think he's proven a few times now that he just doesn't read complete posts...he'll read part of it, pick out a sentence, and post a link from the Heritage Foundation...while at the same time claiming other sources have bias.
He also said once that many times the stuff we've showed him has actually changed his mind, he's just too proud to admit it.
05:23 PM on 10/05/12 
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crackedthesky
cause when I fly solo I fly so high
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Both he and his father being killed leaves a rally bad taste in my mouth and no one really ever talks about it because it isn't a typical 'talking point.'

Just like the thing with Eric Holder being let off by the department he runs. Shady, but no one really talks about it or cares.

I've said quite a few times on here that he needs to get rid of Holder. I can't stand that guy. Geithner should probably go too.

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politic...death-10470891 Edit: I see you already got a link. I don't mean to be redundant.

Some of the worst drone strikes have been in Pakistan though. I'm not sure that a withdrawal is going to stop them.

And the Bradley Manning is something I guess people can be opinionated about based on his character. But the point to me is that he appeared to be punished before he was tried.

I think it comes down to Obama being way, way, way too afraid to question his military advisers, and how he kept the Bush guys in place to begin with.

Regarding Manning, it's standard procedure to put someone deemed a threat to others and themselves in solitary confinement. He shouldn't have even been allowed in the military because he basically failed a mental examination, and he should've been discharged the first time he assaulted a fellow soldier. I think it speaks to how stretched thin our military is that we're letting people like Manning even stay. That all said, I still think it was a bit of an over-reaction, the way he was treated. I just don't think it's the civil doomsday scenario it's been made out to be, either.
 



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