This is an interview where an introduction might not be necessary, but this past weekend I got to spend roughly a half-hour chatting with Converge vocalist/visual artist Jacob Bannon. We chatted a bit about the band's newest LP All We Love We Leave Behind, his work on the visual side of the record and how his past has helped shape what he does now as an artist.
You guys are starting your tour with Torche, and Iím going to murder this name, Kvelertak and Whips/Chains this weekend. Your thoughts on getting back on the road less than a week removed from the release of the new album.
Thoughts about it? I havenít really thought about it too much to be honest. Mainly because Iíve been super busy with stuff. Life sometimes doesnít give you the ability to think about those things. I was busy running around until the last minutes of us loading the van today. More often than not just getting ready for tour and getting life sort of compartmentalized and under control before you leave for a long duration of time, it just takes a lot of effort and a lot of coordination. Thatís pretty much how my lifeís been going. Thatís the honest answer. The more band orientated answer, it feels relatively good. Iím excited to be able to share some new music with people and to play shows live. We enjoy playing live, we always have. I think weíre a fairly abrasive, live animal and I think for a lot people to understand our band and appreciate our band, they need to sort of be in a live environment at times. Weíre all pretty excited about it.
Tying in with the new material, hypothetically how much of it can we expect to hear on this tour?
It really varies. We can play a whole lot of songs every night. I think we have around 40 rotating songs in our set list. So, itíll vary every night. Weíre going to try different things out every night and experiment a bit with what works and what we feel doesnít. And more often than not thatís sort of how we feel on stage playing a song and how we interpret it. It takes a little bit of effort to get used to playing slower songs live. Weíve sort of been a band that likes to play all fast and all abrasive live, so the last three or four tours weíve been playing some of our slower songs, [our] more dynamic songs in live setting. So weíll be doing that on this tour as well.
I remember seeing you in Lansing on the last tour and you guys opened with ďJane DoeĒ.
Yeah we did that for a little while. It was sort of a last minute decision. We were sitting there writing a setlist and they were like, Ďwhat do you want to play?í And I said, Ďletís play ĎJane [Doe]íí Like cool, letís open with that. Weíve never done that, well, weíve done that but itís a rarity. So it was like, letís do a chunk of shows with that in the set opening with it. We just like to have fun, challenge ourselves and throw the audience something a little bit different.
Do you feel like getting right out on the road after releasing this record and then following it up with a European version of the tour is kind of a win/win both for you guys wanting to play the new material and us fans wanting to not only see you guys live but to hear the new material in a live setting?
It depends, what if we put out a horrible record that everybody hated. That would probably be really bad. [laughs] But you know, thankfully, we release music that we enjoy and our standards are fairly high as artists and the people creating it. So usually people will relate to our music in a positive way, and thatís always good. Itís a win-win in that respect. We do it because we have a whole lot of other things in our lives and sort of concentrate our efforts into one block of time. We all have other jobs outside of the band and other responsibilities, so we can ensure we are there for those things and those people. We want to be positive everywhere.
Speaking a bit about the positive things people have said about your music and especially this new record, which fans and critics have seemingly had a lot of good things to say about it, is it a relief to finally have it all out there?
Yeah. Thereís a sense of closure when you finally release some music that youíve worked on. Youíre never really content and thatís part of the creative edge that anyone that makes music or makes art in some way. Youíre never really 100% satisfied with everything. But you want to be able to share it with people. We get antsy just like other people get antsy. We see on social networks, people will email us if weíve mentioned new music or they know weíre recording, like, ĎWHATíS GOING ON? WHAT ARE YOU DOING?í They want music in their hand, and it takes a long time. Itís a creative process still and you canít go in a studio and bang out a record in a day. Thereís a craft to what we do. Itís something some people would find funny because they donít understand abrasive music. It could be noise or what not. But thereís an emotional dynamic and an artistic inspiration through the whole process that happens for us. It takes awhile. I worked on the visuals for the record for three to five months after we finished recording. It was all I did. For fifty or sixty hours a week. You start kind of going crazy, you start melting down a little bit. You just want to finish the project, but also you want to meet your standards of what you want out there. Itís satisfying for sure, but thereís also a true sense of unrest about anything that you do if youíre a creative person.
Even though itís a slightly different process, I feel itís like that with writing too. Even when you do something, some times youíre like, ĎOh, you know, now Iím not so sure.í
Yeah, I write all the time. I write all the copy for Deathwish and a variety of other things. Itís the same creative process. Sometimes you connect with something and what you would like to get on paper comes out on the paper or on the screen immediately. Other times, it takes hours on end to pull these ideas together. Itís the same thing. And itís a process you canít force. You have to be able to go with the flow with anything like that.
Delving a bit more into the album, youíve spoken a bit on how the title reflects the ideas of the title track it is taken from. There are certainly times I feel where that idea pops up in other songs, would you agree that the title fits much more than just that track than what first meets the eye or ear?
Sure. Thatís always sort of the intention with the title. You always want the title to be at least, maybe not all encompassing but largely encompassing of the ideas from some of the things youíre exploring on a record. It can be really simple, like an album The Age of Quarrel from Cro-Mags. It just gives you a sense of living in a time of unrest and uncertainly and all the songs cover that. For us, itís not really that much of a departure from that. The subject matter changes from song to song specifically, but thereís still an underlying current of thought and ideas that Iím trying to artistically explore myself.
Kind of going hand in hand with that, in some particular songs like ďAimless ArrowĒ or ďCoral BlueĒ, thereís a particular form your vocals take on these tracks that while different Ė it isnít the first time you havenít done abrasive screaming. How would you say the music or the vocal approach helped shape the former or the latter as you were writing these songs?
A lot of it comes in the process when you start to fully realize the song. Once youíre starting to figure out a song and the lyrical process and vocal phrasing, you start to think about the approaches of that. Above all that, weíre an abrasive, heavy band, but that doesnít necessarily mean inaudible screaming. I think that non-decipherable screaming, a lot of people will generalize our band because of that. The abrasive vocalists that influenced me were vocalists that were super emotional, super social and kind of wild on a variety of levels. Thatís the style I went towards, gravitated towards and I like a lot. Whatís interesting now, itís a complete rarity now. There was a time in the mid-90s, or late 90s where vocalists were approaching things more in mind with what I do than what happens now. Now you kind of have low-rumble talking thatís kind of aggressive and big soaring vocals and people look at certain types of metallic bands and look at them as being our peers, but we donít really see us as the same animal. Itís almost comparing us to the wrong thing. Itís like comparing some hard liquor or soda product to water, you know what I mean. It has completely different qualities and nuances that you canít really compare. Thatís just what I kind of have to say about abrasive vocals. And youíre right, with all of our records we have experimented with that. Thereís no sense in a song sort of being somber in tone and the volume coming down to let a song have a chance to breathe and this guy just wildly screaming over it. It doesnít make emotional sense. We try to all connect and gel and tell the same story, whether Iím telling it vocally or the guys are telling it musically. It just sort of happens. Some times Iíll go in the studio and I wonít exactly have an approach down and Iíll record a couple different versions of things. There were definitely songs on this were we did a few different things to try it and then weíd talk about it and Iíd decide on a direction. Itís all about making your mind up.
To touch back a bit, you spoke about earlier times where it seemed like there were a lot of really abrasive things. It seemed not too long ago where there were vocalists in heavy music where things were more about perfecting a technique as opposed to honing in on a form of expression.
Thatís an interesting observation. If youíre all about technique, then youíre completely different animal than we are. Weíre all self-taught musicians. Weíre self-taught artists for the most part. We shaped our vision our own way. Itís not meant to be perfect. Itís meant to be what it is. Itís meant to be original. Itís meant to reflect us. I think a lot of those bands you sort of are indirectly or directly referencing, theyíre trying to harness an approach to sound like something or be like something that already exists rather than taking it as a sort of jumping point and moving on from there. For us itís not about precision. Thereís plenty of happy mistakes and wild things that happen and youíre excited about it. If you hear heavy music now, it sounds like someone punches for every line of a vocal or every line is mechanically perfect and sounds exactly the same and thereís no sort of fluctuation in the tone of things. And thatís strange to me, thatís inhuman. I donít that about music. I like music that is human and has that kind of dynamic and imperfection.
I feel like, especially with a song like ďCoral BlueĒ, you guys have taken some of your more obvious leaps as far as expanding your sound as far as instrumentation is concerned. Do you feel that kind of goes in line with the music you wrote this time around?
I guess, but to me, those sort of authorizations are sort of more for critics or writers to kind of explore. For us, itís just an extension of what weíve always done. We took on this path a long time ago to write songs that move us and pull from certain things that influence us and explore those things. Every record we just try to refine those things and get better at them. And write songs that are more powerful to us that genuinely move us. Otherwise, thereís no fun in it. Thereís no interest in it. We wouldnít want to go out there and be a career band. We wouldnít want to go out there and play a song for the sake of playing a song. We want to feel the moment. We want to feel these things. So we push ourselves as far as we can every record. I donít know if that means we sound the same all the time, but when I listen back, I donít think we do. I think every record has a personality and you can hear the nuances that are different. But we always explore those ideas and always push ourselves. Weíre the hardest critics we could ever be when it comes to creating our own music.
One thing I thought was interesting about this record. Thereís the standard and then the deluxe edition for the record. With the deluxe, the songs that are added arenít tacked onto the end, theyíre actually planted right in the middle of the tracklisting. Perhaps other than giving people who werenít able to own the songs on the two splits or ďOn My ShieldĒ the chance to have those in a physical version of a record, what thoughts went into putting them in the middle of the tracklisting as opposed to just putting them at the end?
Listenability. It made sense. We spend a lot of time on the sequencing on our records. I think we had 11 or 12 different sequences for this record, and I donít think any of them had those songs at the end. We never create our music as an afterthought. Thereís two ways of approaching it too and thatís whatís so difficult for us when youíre coming up with a sequence. Thereís the emotional way of listening, where how you feel as a song is coming out of another song. And then thereís the musical way, where you want to ensure like one song doesnít end on a major chord and another starts on a minor or something like that. Or the time signatures sort of clash in a way that doesnít make any sense and itís jarring. You want everything to flow in a way that makes sense from a listenability standpoint from people just getting the record, and a certain musical and technical standpoint. What you get is sort of a technical compromise. You get all of our input coming together to make the one supreme sequence that works for everybody for all different reasons. With that, those songs ended up in different places in the record. It just made sense. At the end of the album, the song ďPredatory GlowĒ coming out of ďRunawayĒ, that was one of the first ideas we had for the record. Thatís a really interesting transition. We wanted to keep those songs together, we knew we wanted to.
You said there were something like 10 or so before you settled on something final?
Thatís just the way we are. We all took our songs and all came up with ideas. The version we ended up all agreeing upon was one that was sort of a master sequence that Ben put together mixed with a master sequence from myself and some mysterious editing from Kurt [laughs]. Itís an amalgamation of all of us.
As far as the artwork, aside from the lunar cycle on the front of the record, what are some of the other things that sparked the artwork for this? I know thereís the reaper type image on the flip-side of the lyrics on the CD version. Where did those ideas come from and how do they tie into the scope and vision for this record?
I enjoy making kinetic visuals and vibrant visuals that have a sense of movement, have a sense of energy to them. I wanted to create a juxtaposition between a really simple, but somber cover, sort of like a calm before the storm type moment, then open up the record and youíre sort of blasted with color and texture in a way that Iíve never really been that free with. Iíve been free with that in exploring art, but never with Converge. With Converge, I create sort of these limited palates that I like to work with. I give each record a kind of color theme and stick with that color theme. And thatís the designer in me. Itís kind of micromanaging things. This record I wanted to do something different. I wanted everything to be wild and vibrant like life is. Life isnít a simple thing. I wanted to have that kind of energy in the visuals. As far as the subject matter in the visuals, I listened to the songs and I reflected in the lyrical content and I would just explore it. I would spend months on end just making art. Some of them connect very literally with a song, others take a break from that and become more abstract companions to the song. Thatís just what the intention was.
Is it a bit more rewarding, not just working on the music side but doing the art as well, to hear people that are anticipating the record are not just excited for the music but to see the whole package as well?
I think it all kind of comes together and has an importance to people who dig our band or are curious about our band. For every person that digs visuals from our band, thereís someone that only cares about music. The way we approach making art and music and presenting it to people is the way we liked it when we were kids. And thatís what shaped our listening habits. The way I still experience listening to records and buying records, I will listen to a record over and over and over again. I donít really shuffle through records all that much. I like to really get a character of a record and truly relate to it. And now, in this new sort of listening culture weíre in, people donít do that. They sample records. They listen to twenty seconds of a song and move on. That wasnít possible with cassettes. That wasnít possible with vinyl. For me, I listened to a cassette all the way through, and I didnít want to fast-forward or rewind because I didnít want to kill my batteries while I was walking around while I was in high school, college or middle school and stuff like that. I just wanted to get all the music I could. Even if my favorite song already went by. But by doing that, I took in records in a way where I wanted to experience them fully and I wanted to be able to go home and unfold the insert of a record and really get into it. And I really dug doing that.
Yeah, and even for myself who doesnít have a huge vinyl or CD collection, itís nice to see that bands are taking the time to give that attention to the physical copy for people who want to look at everything inside of it and kind of poke around while youíre listening to the record.
Itís an important part of relating to a character of the band. Understand the band. Understand where somebody was artistically making it. The visuals are sort of a compending piece to the music. So you want it to be cohesive and you want it to be something that will be interesting for people.
Thatís all I have for you man. Anything else youíd like to add?
I appreciate the time and appreciate that people take the time to get into our band. I know weíre not an easy band to get into and what we do can be off-putting or challenging for people. I just appreciate when someone takes the time to let our music into their lives in some way. Thanks to all of the people who have done that so far.
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