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02:39 PM on 08/21/12 
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Takk...Ros
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In fairness "has anyone read this thing?" is not a great conversation starter especially if nobody has. Are you posting this because you fear or believe in the new world order? Or that this is in some way connected to the Georgia guide stones?
03:04 PM on 08/21/12 
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Takk...Ros
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You're right. I didn't spark a lot of conversation with only saying "Has anyone read this?" but I didn't express my views on the subject yet, because I wanted to get a fair and balanced discussion going, rather than have people dissect my viewpoints right away.

I guess I should rephrase the question and say...

"What are your thoughts on this?" or "Do you think this document is necessary?" etc.

I'm just looking for thoughts on Agenda 21.
Ok. Well, I haven't read it in it's entirety. I just now read the Rio Declaration and the Sustainable Management of Forests. It all sounds pretty good to me, but I don't think anyone is really doing anything about it. The reason I asked about NWO and the like is because I used to date a guy who freaked out about all this saying they were going to use agenda 21 as a way to control us and would eventually thin down the population and put us into camps. Dude was wrong in my opinion because none of this is a) legally binding or b) happening. Do you see any countries really working towards environmental sustainability? Eliminating the gap between the rich and the poor? Getting indigenous people and women involved in decision making processes? Helping underdeveloped countries figure out how to responsibly manage their forests? Also there is a decent bit of emphasis on nation's individual sovereignty in the literature I just read so I'm thinking this is all much ado about nothing.

Now, what are you thoughts on this?
04:41 PM on 08/21/12 
#3
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Takk...Ros
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I haven't read the entire document yet, so I don't want to jump to any conclusions right away, which is part of the reason I started the thread by asking "Has anyone read this?"

I've heard certain things about it, but I like I said, without reading it, I'm trying not to form an opinion. I have however seen some things that make me believe that it is being implemented.

Do you have any reason to believe that "none of this is happening"?

Also why do you associate this with NWO? Did your ex try to connect the two?
Aside from whatever your ex said about this, have you ever heard about or looked into NWO or Agenda 21?

I'm just interested in finding out more about this document and a few others that are similar to it.
For the bolded, I already mentioned it. I don't see anyone making real strides towards environmental sustainability besides some lip service to renewable energy. I don't see anyone in power trying to solve the wage gap. Women, minorities, and indigenous people are routinely and consistently left out or ignored when it comes to ANY kind of policy making. I'm curious about what you've seen that's being implemented?

I also don't see what would be wrong if these things WERE being put into action. There's nothing in the Rio Declaration or the sustaining forest thing (which is all I took the time to read) that I find problematic, in fact, these are the kinds of things I would love to see countries adopting. I'm all about the environment and income equality.

My ex did connect the two, but he also believed in every conspiracy theory ever in the history of the world. I haven't looked into it a whole lot, but from what I can tell it's a very silly belief held by overly paranoid people.
06:12 PM on 08/21/12 
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Takk...Ros
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What have you HEARD that has you so concerned? I understand that you haven't read the document in it's entirety, but you obviously have some opinions about what is going on.

From wikipedia, it looks like this is being put to use mostly on a local level. If communities have decided that these goals are what's best for them I don't see how you can tell them they're wrong. And I have yet to see anything that would be bad in Agenda 21's proposal. Our way of living is unsustainable. It's not some big conspiracy against the American people to point that out.

The UN report cites only patchy progress in a few areas. Even if there is some big dark side to this that I'm missing, there have been no huge leaps towards the total implementation of Agenda 21 and it doesn't really look like there will be. It has been met with resistance in some places and with differing ideas on how to move forward where it is accepted.

Your other links are...sketchy at best. I am completely disregarding the sovereignty.net one and the other two I'm taking with a grain (or several) of salt. None of them were really that clear on what terrible things they think will happen. They are just certain it's SOMETHING and that other intelligent people will see what it is. Maybe I'm stupid, but I am not seeing what is so terrible about any of this.
06:31 PM on 08/21/12 
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Takk...Ros
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Best part of those last three links is how everything is in scare quotes, "it is a "partnering" organization...the environmental "council"...putting money in planned parenthood for "contraceptive development"..." like that explains anything. If I just use "quotation" marks "everyone" will see the evil "plan" for what it "is". Don't even have to worry about pesky facts.
05:07 PM on 08/22/12 
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Takk...Ros
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How about being a saint and commiting suicide?
That's a little uncalled for, yo.

And wow. This thread really took off while I was away.
10:57 AM on 08/26/12 
#7
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Takk...Ros
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This thread has taught me that white people are the whiniest motherfuckers on the planet. Jesus guys. This whole thread alternates between "I recognize that POC have it tough, but one time a black person was mean to me" and "You will pry racial slurs away from my cold dead hands!". It's embarrassing how fucking entitled you are.
02:06 AM on 08/28/12 
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Takk...Ros
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AP is mostly occupied by sheltered white people, no one is surprised....
I'm definitely not surprised. It's just disappointing, ya know?
White people, straight people, hardcore Christians, and men are some of the whiniest people on the planet. The actual worst, and any time they try to act like they are marginalized in any way I want to punch them. Any time a white person whines that they can't say the n-word when black people can, I just flip out. Every time I ask why they even want to say that word at all, they're like "I don't but it's still not fair!!1!" and it's such bs.

Or when someone/something mentions that a certain area is overwhelmingly racist and a bunch of white people act all offended, like "we're not all like that!!" or "excuse you, stop generalizing!!" Ugh. Shut up and stop playing victim. If your first reaction to a racist story is to get all defensive instead of you know... upset over the racism taking place, you just suck. I don't go cry in a corner when people say eastern Oregon is racist, because a lot of it is and I'm not delusional.

/rant
I 100% agree with your rant. I try to stay patient and just explain my point, but sometimes I just want to start the "name-call-and-make-fun-of-their-dumb-asses" method of debate. I remember trying to explain white privilege to a friend of mine and after I got done the only thing they had to say was, "Sounds like you just hate the white man." He was joking, but I still know he didn't take any of it in. A discussion on slut shaming and rape culture went even worse. Apparently rape doesn't really happen anymore and it's just a bunch of crying bitches trying to ruin guys lives. I stopped hanging out with dudebro.

Yeah they absolutely LOVE to play the victim. I don't remember where I read it, but there was this really great article about how white people (supposedly allies, not just random racist off the street) want to discuss racism and it was applicable to how any privileged person (man, white, straight, rich etc.) wants to talk about oppression. They need to be reassured at every turn. I'm summarizing from a vague memory, but it was something like "Now I know not all white people are racist and some hate racism just as much as me, but today I want to talk about racism in the police force. Don't get me wrong, there are many great and non-racist policemen and women and this is not an individual assessment of every police officer because many of them are great and amazing people, but black and brown bodies are more likely to face police violence than white people. This is an issue that needs to be dealt with even though I know a lot of white people hate this and want to help stop it because they are nice and helpful and awesome." It was so on point.
True. But it seems like this kind of stuff (though not quite as extreme) is being more accepted as a method of anti-racism these days, which I kind of don't agree with.
It's hipster-racism. They say they're being ironic when they're actually just being racist. They act like we live in some post-racial, colorblind society (not recognizing that a post-racial, colorblind society is racist as fuck) so it's okay to say that shit because "OBVIOUSLY I'm just making fun of the past because there is no way that anyone actually believes that. Only KKK members can be racist, duh. You're racist for pointing out my racism". Then I get to hear that same stupid art school kid rant about the black and asian kids getting in on sub-par talent and how he has to pay for their education and how he is essentially being punished for being white. Doesn't matter that he himself is a shitty photographer (who spends his time taking pictures of white kids in warbonnets, but he's definitely not racist) and is going to school on a scholarship. He earned that, but there's no way the non-white kids did.

P.s. sorry that turned into a rant, haha. I just know way too many assholes. Fuck Iowa.
04:41 AM on 08/29/12 
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Takk...Ros
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Yeah, it's really difficult to stay calm, so I've admittedly given up on that haha. At this point I feel like my peers are old enough that they should understand privilege by now, and if they don't know this by their 20's then they know how to Google. I still try to reason, but I'm just realizing how pointless it seems lately. omg no sexism discussions are enough to get me angry for weeks, and I'm not an angry person haha. After tons of men have tried to tell me what is and isn't sexist, tell me I'm sensitive, overreacting, have no sense of humor, etc it''s just ugh. I hope most of them will grow up and realize that women are their wives/mothers/sisters/friends/daughters/etc and not just "stupid whores," but they can be a bitter bunch.

And yeah, a lot of white people need to constantly be reassured that they're not racist. It totally turns the discussion into a sensitive issue for the white people where they get all coddled to not feel like a big bad racist, which is so backwards.
I think I'm just going to start telling people to google it haha. I'm not an angry person either, but once we start talking about this kind of stuff I just can't stay calm. It's like, "You are thirty years old! How do you not get this by now?". And yeah we're oversensitive, but if you mention 'patriarchy' it's "OMG NOEZ! WHAT ABOUT THE MEN!?!?!11!". And that is exactly what happened in this thread too. "Yeah there's racism, but you are just sensitive and WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEEEEE?1?!!? Whatever lol.

I'm glad someone gets it though :). So I'm just going to remember that next time it comes up and hopefully there are more people out there who understand than we realize.
Believe me, I'm with you for the most part! I still live in Texas and I've lost count of how many times I've had run-ins with asshole bullies growing up.

I want to expand on some of what you said though: I think a lot of hipster racism is coming from more of a white guilt place rather than one of wanting to live in a colorblind society. There are indeed plenty of people who use ironic racism to veil oldschool racism, though. I think some people who make racist jokes for the sake of irony are also fairly liberal and they feel like they are being anti-racist by no longer ignoring the issue and using every moment to make fun of racist thinking. That used to be my philosophy. But what I found over time, though, is that this doesn't work really well, because 1) those jokes should are EASY/OBVIOUS if you're not racist (which makes for shitty humor that really isn't that edgy) and 2) the logical conclusion of that humor is saying extremely fucked up stuff with a straight face for the sake of a laugh (luckily I never felt compelled to take it that far). It doesn't take into account that it can still be awkward, if not hurtful for an oppressed group. It's not cool to do what comedians/artists like Robert Crumb, John Maayer and Daniel Tosh do in society because, first off, they make a living off of it and a comfortable living at that. And second, if someone is making these jokes and they're white and are living in a nice part of town with lots of material possessions, they just look like a douche. The only real way to fight racism is to speak out against it from an attitude of empathy and love for underprivileged groups, to be intolerant of intolerance, and to help out underprivileged groups whenever and however possible. IMO. This has been my stance on it for some time. It should be more common, but unfortunately compassion is a rarity these days.
Omg the bolded, this this this. Jokes based on racist and sexist humor aren't funny anymore. Not because we don't have a sense of humor or we're 'oversensitive', but because we have heard them all before a million times. And, yes, sometimes they are hurtful too, but mostly they're just not funny and if you rely on humor like that you're not funny. You're not 'edgy' and 'pushing the envelope'. You're a hack. I also agree with what you say about being white and living large and then making fun of minorities. It's doubly painful when you take into account how many successful comics are white males. I'm not mad at them for being successful, but I do get a little mad that they're making their fortune on the backs of people who will probably not make it in that industry to tell their own stories and jokes. They cry when they get criticized for racism, but don't understand how painful it is to watch somebody profit off your pain. Same with guys who tell rape jokes. Now I don't want to write off that men can be and are raped or that women can be and are rapists, but it is overwhelmingly males who rape females. When 1 in 5 women are sexually assaulted in their lives, watching people from the demographic statistically most likely to hurt you tell you how hilarious it is when they do isn't funny. It's fucked up.

I agree with your stance on combating racism and I think a big part of this "ironic racism", which is indistinguishable from racist-racism, is because speaking up and out is hard. It's easier to make jokes that go with the status quo and say you are making fun of the racism itself, even though racists laugh at it too because it goes along with their worldview, than to actually confront someone for being jerks. And sorry that I went all ranty again, lol.
11:48 AM on 08/29/12 
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Takk...Ros
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Holy fucking hell guys. Read the comments on this page. I would laugh, but these people need serious help. What in the actual fuck.
11:52 AM on 08/29/12 
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Takk...Ros
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Quote:
These half Vietnamese are torturing all these Caucasians via the call centres in California, Canada and Europe. They actually burn there hands and feet until it drops off or until it rottens and drops off their limbs. You think the world is focked up. You ainít seen nothing yet. Trust me. I have seen this with my own eyes. Get this. Well the previous topics talked about all these New World Order people running around with kids. Thats the half Vietnamese people right. Because they killed everyone and got no one so they have to settle for kids dressed as adults right. Their sad excuse is to blame the Caucasians they have living on the surface. They get these youngsters to fool the Caucasians right and then they cut them open and surgically implant mini speakers inside their chest and get this play music via wireless . This is done in Brazil. Iím not joking people.
The New World Order set up in the late 50′s or early sixties are doing this. They have breed a certain half vietnamese people and they are just focking up the show and torturing people man. Its focked up. They have locked all Caucasian races under ground. Breeding children. and having sex with children. Dressing boys as girls and growing them up as women to satisfy their sexual needs. They are torture people from these call centres. Burning their focking limbs off. Its serious people iím not joking. And off course their hooked on lots of cocaine. This is one focked up race of people and will have to be removed or else our planet will go to shit.
This is a comment from your page. These are the types of people who think the NWO is happening.
11:57 AM on 08/29/12 
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Takk...Ros
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It is probably not fair that I'm writing the video off because of the comments, but idgaf. That was the strangest thing I've ever read and ALL OF THE COMMENTS were like that. If the only kind of people your site attracts believe that half Vietnamese people are taking caucasion people from call centers and burning their limbs off, I'm going to just walk away.
12:04 PM on 08/29/12 
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Takk...Ros
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You shouldn't generalize people based on one person's views.

I don't agree with the comment that that person posted, but I do think the NWO is real.
*sigh* You're right. I mean, I dated a guy who believed in the NWO and he definitely wasn't that crazy.

I would hope you don't agree. It's obvious that person has some sort of mental disorder. That's not a shot at him/her, it genuinely looks like schizophrenia (or trolling I suppose).
I think the mini wireless speakers to play music out of your chest is a pretty good idea.
You're one of them! The half-Vietnamese have infiltrated ap.net!!
01:28 PM on 08/29/12 
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Takk...Ros
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Just because someone believes in the NWO doesn't make them crazy. You'd be surprised to find out how many truly intellectual people hold this belief.

I realize there is some debate as to what is fact and what is fiction, but there are things that are open for discussion, and just because people want to discuss them does not make them crazy.

That being said, the comment on that other board... a little crazy.
Ah no, I wasn't implying he was a little crazy for holding that one particular belief. It was a combination of things. My bad.

EDIT: But, in all honesty, I think people who believe in it are overly paranoid. Not necessarily crazy, but definitely paranoid. Sorry
01:30 PM on 08/29/12 
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Takk...Ros
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Somebody keep posting comments from that site. For some reason I can't get on it here.
Here's another one. More of the same stuff, different poster.
Quote:
There are no Caucasians alive on the planet. The only ones that are alive have been painted black and locked underground where they are being used for sperm which are them crossed with the Vietnamese men also locked underground to produce sperm which are them being used to produce these Vietnamese looking people thats running the planet today.The New World Order set up sometime back in the or early sixties have ordered all Caucasians to be killed or painted black and locked underground. They have spread the entire united states and Europe and killed all the Caucasians. The few they have living on the surface they have painted them black put Vietnamese hair on there heads or negro hair wire there entire bodies with steel wire from head to toe together with a heating element. They are burnt with these steel wires via wireless technology. To let them know you are being held a slave. From call centres in Canada, California or Europe.The only Caucasians alive on the surface of the planted today have steel wires in them and are burnt to a focking toast from call centres in Canada and California. The New World Order have put these half looking Vietnamese to run the Show. They pretend to be Caucasians under these rubber suits they are wearing. They are playing doctor with the hundred of thousands of people they have locked in the underground facilities. Which they are mixing to get this special sperm to get this vietnamese looking people with the straight jaw and vietnamese eyes. They are only studying pussy. The new world order should be called kok head new world order because clearly this is what it means. By the way the new world order have put happiness as their main priority as a means of these little minors you see on youtube with the sailors returning to there wives. Have a look at. The grown up are living with 14 year old boys they have dressed as adults in these rubber suits. They are training boys to be girls and putting a female rubber suit on them from the time they are born. Because they are sooo fucking lonely. they need a 14 year old boy for company
 



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