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09:46 PM on 11/18/12
#2
Jack Appleby
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For anyone who likes this album, I'd be happy to provide you with a list of heavy albums that are infinitely better.
09:54 AM on 11/19/12
#3
Jack Appleby
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what does it signify? without the s it's not a word? im not sure. it bothers me. i liked the last record enough when i went through a random scene sing/scream phase earlier this year, but i guess won't be trying this one.
It's just for branding purposes - there's likely some ridiculous "meaning" floating around the web somewhere. Kinda genius for branding, just like OM&M's &. Plus, this way kids can get [s] tattooed on themselves!
10:14 AM on 11/19/12
#4
Jack Appleby
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So Woe retweeted 5 kids last night who said VERY positive things about the album.
I reached out to all those kids on Twitter for their opinions - not interested in criticizing them as much as hearing what they enjoy about the album, and what other bands they listen to.
You can follow it all on my Twitter - @JackMEB.
10:46 AM on 11/19/12
#5
Jack Appleby
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I just looked at the answers you got from the guys who like the album and they're pretty funny. Did you honestly think you'd get a real reason from them about why they like it? Props though for trying to get these kids into some better bands.
Haha, I'm trying to slowly and respectfully get them to check out legitimate bands.
Hoping for a "GOOD GOD HOW HAVE I BEEN SO WRONG."
12:44 PM on 11/19/12
#6
Jack Appleby
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I have no interest in this band and will never listen to this album. If I did I’m sure I’d hate it. But at some point we have to acknowledge that there’s a distinct group who appreciate this stuff and just let it go.

That doesn’t mean the album deserves no review. It should be honestly assessed and, if it deserves a 5% rating, then so be it. Lazy, uninspired music should be labeled as such. There’s a distinction, though, between writing a review and bothering kids on Twitter for your amusement. Yeah, it was overtly respectful, but call a spade a spade: “LOL this kid loves Woe is Me but has never heard of letlive! What an idiot! LULZ!” A lot of kids clearly enjoy simplistic heavy music laden with breakdowns. (Which is why, by the way, that references to Touche Amore and La Dispute are utterly idiotic—those bands couldn’t be more dissimilar from Risecore dreck.)

Instead of not-so-subtly snickering at these kids, let’s focus on promoting the bands more deserving of success. The means of doing that isn’t to convert Woe is Me fans who, by looking at those Twitter responses, listen to a miniscule number of albums compared to the average AP.net poster. Those of us in the “scene” who have been around for awhile, understand its development, and have digested a huge quantity of music can’t allow ourselves to be shocked when a kid in high school hears his first breakdown in an Attack Attack song and thinks holy shit what is this! Shitty music isn’t going anywhere.

Oh, I in no way am trying to make fun of the fans - I'm legitimately interested in their musical tastes. I'm curious as to Woe fans' awareness to other music. Excuse this short response, I'm mobile at the moment.
12:47 PM on 11/19/12
#7
Jack Appleby
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Who have you been reccommending? I'm asking because it can be incredibly annoying when you enjoy a heavy band that others dislike and someone says "listen to Brand New" or something that's not even close in sound.

IMO, here are some much better choices if you're into heavy + melodic metalcore with stylized flourishes;

*In League's "Sleep and you might miss this"
*Outline In Color's "Jury of wolves"
*The Last Of Our Kind's " A Diamond in the rough"

I feel all these would appeal to W,IM fans but feature more talented, humble and deserving musicians. I also consider these to be excellent albums. I hate to do this since I loved Number[s] and Fame>Demise but this current rendition of W,IM does not need to be rewarded for such shoddy work.

I've been going with ETID, Letlive, Night Verses, and a few others. Thoughts? I want to make sure I'm suggesting bands that could legitimately draw their interest.
02:58 PM on 11/19/12
#8
Jack Appleby
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Why why why don't they let Hance sing/scream?! I don't get it. I am going to give this record a chance though. So far I'm not pleased with Doriano's screams.
This is what I've said over and over. I assume on their part, the thinking is that two frontmen are better than one in a live setting, plus singing and screaming every night can be tough for a vocalist. Logistically, they made the right move, even if they suffered stylistically as a result.

I have no interest in this band and will never listen to this album. If I did I’m sure I’d hate it. But at some point we have to acknowledge that there’s a distinct group who appreciate this stuff and just let it go.

That doesn’t mean the album deserves no review. It should be honestly assessed and, if it deserves a 5% rating, then so be it. Lazy, uninspired music should be labeled as such. There’s a distinction, though, between writing a review and bothering kids on Twitter for your amusement. Yeah, it was overtly respectful, but call a spade a spade: “LOL this kid loves Woe is Me but has never heard of letlive! What an idiot! LULZ!” A lot of kids clearly enjoy simplistic heavy music laden with breakdowns. (Which is why, by the way, that references to Touche Amore and La Dispute are utterly idiotic—those bands couldn’t be more dissimilar from Risecore dreck.)

Instead of not-so-subtly snickering at these kids, let’s focus on promoting the bands more deserving of success. The means of doing that isn’t to convert Woe is Me fans who, by looking at those Twitter responses, listen to a miniscule number of albums compared to the average AP.net poster. Those of us in the “scene” who have been around for awhile, understand its development, and have digested a huge quantity of music can’t allow ourselves to be shocked when a kid in high school hears his first breakdown in an Attack Attack song and thinks holy shit what is this! Shitty music isn’t going anywhere.

Back from my meeting so I can give this a response. I completely understand your point, but I think you're missing mine.
I'm legitimately curious what kids love about this band, or any other band. Is it the trendiness? The music? The heaviness? I want to know what the appeal is. The same question should be asked of us - what makes us love the music we advocate?
In no way am I trying to put anyone down - I'm just curious as to the fanbase themselves. I ask about other bands because I'm curious what other genres their fans may step outside of. Does that make sense?

Who have you been reccommending? I'm asking because it can be incredibly annoying when you enjoy a heavy band that others dislike and someone says "listen to Brand New" or something that's not even close in sound.

IMO, here are some much better choices if you're into heavy + melodic metalcore with stylized flourishes;

*In League's "Sleep and you might miss this"
*Outline In Color's "Jury of wolves"
*The Last Of Our Kind's " A Diamond in the rough"

I feel all these would appeal to W,IM fans but feature more talented, humble and deserving musicians. I also consider these to be excellent albums. I hate to do this since I loved Number[s] and Fame>Demise but this current rendition of W,IM does not need to be rewarded for such shoddy work.
Haha, you sound much more qualified to be doing this than me - I've been going with ETID, Night Verses and Letlive as my basis. If kids mention the screams or their heaviness, I throw in Touche Amore, and once La Dispute (realistically, a terrible choice due to learning curve). I'm not familiar with the ones you mentioned, but you definitely seem to understand what I'm going for.

Personally I'm a big connoisseur of heavy music and I LOVE those bands (NV's EP was better than the last 2 Sleeping CDs IMO) but I feel most "scene kids" aren't going to enjoy those. Especially ETID, I feel like that's a band everyone knows by this point but appeals more towards those of us who have been following them for years. People who listen to modern metalcore usually want something a little more accesible then those bands. Something to sing along with and has buildup points good for crowd interaction.

I truly reccommend those 3 albums I mentioned for they are still in the W,IM vein but aren't cocky/shallow/etc.
Oddly enough, several of the advocates for Genesi[s] quoted Doriano's screams as a selling point - that's why I went with those bands. I agree that generally something more accessible would have been more appropriate, but strangely, the situation called for angry stuff over melodic stuff.

The fact that you gave Black Diamonds a higher score than this album speaks for itself. I agree with a much of the review, but really? Sure the programming is absent on Genesis, but at least it isn't GOD-AWFUL. Sure the interesting guitar work has largely disappeared, but shouldn't some of it have reemerged on Black Diamonds? It didn't. Genesis arguably contains ten minutes of good music. That's over twice as much as Black Diamonds, in my humble opinion.
At no point did I make this a Woe vs. Issues thing - they're different kinds of music. Not sure why you'd suggest my review of one discredits the other?

https://twitter.com/jackmeb Someone has let "staff reviewer" status go to their head apparently.....
Not sure what insult you're getting at here...
03:05 PM on 11/19/12
#9
Jack Appleby
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I don't see why you're so obsessed with music tastes of the people who enjoy this record. There's no point in recommending "better" heavy music, since in most cases "good" heavy music does not have 4 breakdowns in one song.

I fucking love this record for what it is. One ignorant well produced breakdown after another, but in certain situations that's all I need.
I'm actually just fascinated with what forms people's tastes - this just happens to be a timely record to explore that too. I did similar research/discussion regarding Anberlin's latest. I'm not so much recommending "better" music as I am other music.
03:46 PM on 11/19/12
Jack Appleby
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Haha, cool, isn't it? Love my job.
04:23 PM on 11/19/12
Jack Appleby
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What happens if they already really enjoy those bands but are big Woe fans?
Haha, nothing? I'm curious to see how broad their tastes are. I like plenty of bands that people criticize (see: Issues).
03:35 PM on 11/21/12
Jack Appleby
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I just signed up especially to post on this review. I 100% disagree with it. I have my personal reasons, but I will stick to the mention of the song Vengeance in the review specifically. I dont see how you can like that song but not like this album. Hance doesnt come into that song until 1:30 into it and most of the riffs on it are chug-chug style riffs. That's exactly what this whole album is! Chug riffs and Hance here and there. The review contradicts itself and is thus illogical and should be discredited. For those that dislike Vengeance and this album, you have legitimacy--but still not enough to give a member rating less than 10%, that's like local band sh*t (which these guys are certainly not).
Shame you're a one-timer, because I definitely understand your confusion.

Here's why I liked "Vengeance" and didn't like the album.

"Vengeance" was a stand alone single - a track meant to fill space in between records, and meant to introduce Hance. That track expertly built anticipation by delaying a clean chorus until after the second verse - I remember the suspense that delay in clean vocals built - it was perfect for the situation.

This is a whole album of that. It doesn't work when you use the same tactic for an entire album.
12:48 PM on 11/24/12
Jack Appleby
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oh look you finally gave an album it's correct rating, good job bro!

Haha, oh? Realizing I'm falling for troll bait, which scores would you disagree with? I really hope this isn't about Issues, because it takes a special immaturity to think one album review by one band affects another.
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