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HOF?
Sandy Alomar Jr 1 2.86%
Jeff Bagwell 23 65.71%
Craig Biggio 21 60.00%
Barry Bonds 20 57.14%
Jeff Cirillo 0 0%
Royce Clayton 0 0%
Roger Clemens 18 51.43%
Jeff Conine 0 0%
Steve Finley 2 5.71%
Julio Franco 0 0%
Shawn Green 0 0%
Roberto Hernandez 0 0%
Ryan Klesko 0 0%
Kenny Lofton 7 20.00%
Edgar Martinez 18 51.43%
Don Mattingly 5 14.29%
Fred McGriff 6 17.14%
Mark McGwire 16 45.71%
Jose Mesa 0 0%
Jack Morris 2 5.71%
Dale Murphy 2 5.71%
Rafael Palmiero 4 11.43%
Mike Piazza 28 80.00%
Tim Raines 14 40.00%
Reggie Sanders 1 2.86%
Curt Schilling 22 62.86%
Aaron Sele 0 0%
Lee Smith 2 5.71%
Sammy Sosa 5 14.29%
Mike Stanton 0 0%
Alan Trammell 6 17.14%
Larry Walker 13 37.14%
Todd Walker 4 11.43%
David Wells 0 0%
Rondell White 1 2.86%
Bernie Williams 4 11.43%
Woody Williams 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

 
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09:14 AM on 12/01/12 
#1
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thejetstolehome
Benny the Jet
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Putting this here so it doesn't clog up the MLB Thread and, yes, for whatever reason, I still care about it. I'm putting up a poll with options for the candidates, listed alphabetically. Remember, you can pick up to ten players.
09:20 AM on 12/01/12 
#2
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thejetstolehome
Benny the Jet
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Voted for:

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Martinez
McGwire
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Trammell

Sosa's left off due to space/lack thereof.
04:04 PM on 12/01/12 
#3
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thejetstolehome
Benny the Jet
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Fuck Jack Morris's HOF case. There's a post I made a while ago in one of the MLB threads about how flimsy his "best pitcher of the 80s" case is.
05:55 AM on 12/02/12 
#4
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thejetstolehome
Benny the Jet
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Here's the post I was thinking of:

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthre...ost1005 01072

Also this: http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthre...ost1005 01962
08:50 PM on 12/02/12 
#5
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thejetstolehome
Benny the Jet
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One of the most iconic players of the last 30 years, amazing performances in both the 84 and 91 World Series. Yes his stats don't quite hold up, but it's the hall of fame, not hall of stat.

Really? He's not even one of the most iconic players on this ballot, let alone of the last thirty years. I'd place Bonds, Bagwell, Biggio, Clemens, Schilling, Martinez, and Piazza over Morris as "iconic" on this ballot, and it doesn't include A-Rod, Griffey, Jeter, Ripken, Gwynn, Winfield, Henderson, Ryan, Pedro....do I need to go on? If someone other than Jack Morris pitched that one game, Jack Morris would not have a HOF case (sidebar: convenient that no one mentions Morris was a plate of hot garbage in the 1992 playoffs and was left off the 1993 playoff roster completely). This "it's not the hall of stats' thing is ridiculous at worst and disingenuous at best. You get into the HOF by performing exceptionally well at baseball. How do we measure performance? We measure it by statistics. And I know one of the favorite narratives for Morris is "Oh you had to be there to get how good he was!" Well, isn't the whole fucking point of the HOF that you didn't have to be there to know how good he was? I never saw Babe Ruth play, but I know how damn good he was because I can look at his statistical record and say "GODDAMN, that is baseball porn.' My kids will never have seen Griffey, A-Rod, Jeter, Pujols, Maddux, Pedro, etc. pitch but they won't had to have seen them to understand their greatness.

There is little evidence that he is one of the best pitchers in baseball history. Was he good? Yeah, he was pretty good. He threw a lot of innings for a lot of winning teams, but he was only slightly above average (105 ERA+) when it came to doing what pitchers need to do most: prevent runs. Even his career high ERA+ (133) isn't all that hot as far as career highs go. To add to what I had before in that series of tweets re: Morris being the "best pitcher of the 80's', there were 22 pitchers in the 1980's who pitched at least 1000 innings while starting at least 80% of their games with better ERA+ marks than Jack Morris (110...if we do raw ERA from the 80's, Morris is 34th.). And, if we compare him to other pitchers on this ballot, he falls considerably short. His career high ERA+ would've been 10th in Schilling's career and third in Wells's. Morris's best ERA+ is ten points lower than Roger Clemens's career ERA+; he had 13 seasons better than Morris's best. Yes that's comparing Morris to one of the best pitchers of all time, but isn't that the point? Morris doesn't hold a candle to the all-time greats and even the HOF pitcher to whom he's most often compared--Bert Blyleven--blows him away. JacK Morris is, in no way, shape, or form, a Hall of Fame pitcher.
03:28 AM on 12/03/12 
#6
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thejetstolehome
Benny the Jet
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You forgot about 1984.

So his HOF case is based on one game in 1991 and a playoff run in 1984. That holds less weight than a baby's neck does.
05:18 PM on 12/03/12 
#7
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thejetstolehome
Benny the Jet
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I'm a man, man.

Really, though, I understand the argument against Morris and I knew I'd get these responses. I just happen to agree with the 67% of HoF voters from last year is all.

If Jack Morris didn't play for the Tigers, would you think he was a HOF player?
06:42 PM on 12/03/12 
#8
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thejetstolehome
Benny the Jet
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Based on what, though? I can sorta see it from a fan's POV, but I just don't get what the big deal over this guy is.

And do you think this guy is an HOF pitcher:

Mystery Pitcher: 2840 IP; 105 ERA+; 88 FIP-; 1.249 WHIP; 8.8 H/9; 1.2 HR/9; 2.4 BB/9; 8.0 K/9; 3.32 K/BB; 39.4 bWAR (avg. 3.1); 55.2 fWAR (avg. 3.9); five seasons of 5+ fWAR; four seasons of 5+ bWAR
03:41 AM on 12/07/12 
#9
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thejetstolehome
Benny the Jet
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there's no way Don Mattingly is a HOF'er

also, is Curt Schilling really a HOF'er? lots of votes for him in here.

127 ERA+, over 3K strikeouts, career 4.38 K/BB (second best rate ever) and a bunch of appearances in the top 5/10 of a lot of leaderboards.



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