This is far, far more significant to me than Craig returning.

Originally Posted by Holly HoX!

He shouldn't associate with this band at all.

Meh - the Chiodos guys are actually pretty solid musicians.
On Thomas' level? I'd say no - but this could produce some interesting results, as long as whoever produces works wonders on Craig's voice.

Originally Posted by Davewinnie

Completely agree with this! Craig did say they were returning to Alls Well Ends Well sound, which I thought was more technical than Bone Palace. Hope they can make a great record! Also, hope this makes Thomas return Fall of Troy sometime in the future after chiodos. =]

As far as musical ability, I think you'd be hard-pressed to call anything but Illuminaudio their best.

Originally Posted by Scrawns

ITT: People that can't even sing at karaoke night in the bar become judgmental of Craig Owen's vocals.

I'm going to reallyyyy hope you're joking with this post.
Because none of us are trying to be vocalists by profession.
Also, I've seen Craig perform three times. Once I laughed at how bad he was, once I was irritated at how bad he was, and once, he was average.

Originally Posted by Scrawns

Im absolutely not joking. I have seen one person say "still won't make Craig a good singer", and another say "Owens is one of the worst singers in this scene". I know my voice sounds like garbage so I don't rag on other people's voices, yet some people see fit to criticize others when they themselves surely have nothing to show for it. And as far as live performances go, most of what I am seeing on Youtube that is in acceptable video quality is quite impressive, especially his acoustic performances. So either his voice was struggling (as most musicians who tour for months at a time and go hard every performance do), or your standards are atrociously high for a rock band. Then again you did give the vocals of Woe, Is Me's latest record a 1. You would think that Hance Alligood's vocal performance could cancel out some of the screamer's shit to make it up to at least a 5, but you did also blame the production quality (which logical thinkers would assume goes under the "Production" category right?). With that in mind, I can't expect a whole lot from your opinion on this topic. (A side note on that review too, their song "Vengeance" doesn't actually have a "#"in the title)

First of all, I do appreciate you doing your homework on this instead of just fanboying over Craig.

BUT - I have to completely disagree with you.

Before I even get into WHY I think Craig's voice is weak, I'll say this - You don't have to be a great vocalist to recognize a bad vocalist. I'm not a professional chef, but I know when food tastes bad.

As a vocalist, Owens is questionable, at the very best. His range is very limited, and he's got absolutely no power to his voice whatsoever. You reference acoustic YouTube videos as evidence - that's just proving my point. It takes absolutely ZERO power to sing over an acoustic guitar. Regarding his range, his highs are very, VERY thin, yet he continues to reach for them on a consistent basis - and that's acoustic. In full band, when trying to hit highs with a full voice, he consistently misses them or points the mic to the crowd (Again, I've watched him do it live OVER AND OVER AGAIN).

Regarding your statement "your standards must be atrociously high for a rock band" - you are absolutely, 100% correct. Are you suggesting there's something wrong with that? Touring musicians create music as a PROFESSION - I expect them to be the best, night in and night out. That's literally their job. So yes, I do hold vocalists to an incredibly high standard. In all the concerts I've been to, Craig is EASILY one of the worst. In his genre alone, there are many, MANY better vocalists - I The Mighty's Brent Walsh, Dance Gavin Dance's Tilian Pearson, Culprit's Travis Powell, Hance Alligood (as you mentioned), Issues' Tyler Carter, and many, many more. Don't even get me started outside his genre.

Also, couldn't help but laugh at your criticism of my Woe review. Basically, you admitted I was right, then just went after WHERE I placed a certain score? Got it.

Originally Posted by Your Milkshake

Dude, hes right, Craig can sometimes perform very well and inherently has a good singing voice and range. Ive seen him hit monumental notes live particularly in bulls make money. This is coming from someone who is apathetic about his career. Seems the beef people have with his voice is mostly tone.

If anything, the one thing we can conclude from these conversations is that he's inconsistent, since people pretty passionately argue for both sides. It's very similar to the Cove debates.