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Politics News - Page 11
Displaying posts 150 - 165 of 278.
04:45 PM on 01/21/13
abbysmith
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Do people not understand this yet? Christians are opposed to gay marriage. Does this come as a surprise to anyone? If this message board posts a news thread every time a christian in the music industry voices an anti gay marriage opinion, it's going to pop up here CONSTANTLY. Rocketown is and has ALWAYS been a christian venue. They are arguably more tolerant than most christian institutions. But did anyone expect them to be pro gay rights? And don't they as a privately owned, christian institution have the right to hire people who are going to uphold their agenda?
Not all Christians are anti-gay, just some. And just because someone is anti-gay because of the religion they choose to practice, that doesn't make it okay. Just because a religion says something, that doesn't mean it's an acceptable practice. I personally believe that firing someone and putting them in turmoil for supporting gay marriage is more of a sin than two men or two women falling in love, and if someone disagrees with me then I'm sorry but I just don't respect you.
04:45 PM on 01/21/13
Big_Guy
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Please read the above statements I made. They are FAR from the same thing but in regards to looking at both at surface value, in both cases, its a situation where the employee is choosing to represent the company in a manner in which the company chooses to not be represented. Once again, as stated in the statement you quoted, I DO advocate gay rights. I do not advocate racism. This is not a situation ofsupporting gay rights, its an issue of somebody choosing to put their own image & beliefs in front of their company's image and beliefs, while on the clock.
if there is no dress code do they have a right to terminate the guy?
04:46 PM on 01/21/13
Jason Tate
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i agree...i support gay marriage, but there's no way i'll wear that shirt on the clock because some customers would really hate me and report it to management
Found this relevant today.

One who breaks an unjust law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law. - MLK
04:48 PM on 01/21/13
Jason Tate
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No more oppressive than disallowing marijuana possession, which you relegate to "a purely political issue." Neither policy really "devalues" anyone "as a person," they just prevent people from doing something they want to.
This is a pretty flawed analogy. However, separate but equal policy most certainly does devalue someone as a person.
04:48 PM on 01/21/13
imposs1ble
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I don't believe human rights should be viewed as any one person's agenda - but one of all of humanity. The idea that the advocation of basic equality is considered an "agenda" - to me, is flawed at its premise. I think the actions of this venue have done far more damage of any potential "clientele's view."

But his shirt did not say that - and that's a far more drastic statement ... what it said was more akin to "I Don't Support the 3/5ths Compromise" or "I Support a Woman's Right to Vote." Things that we all agree should not be inflammatory in the slightest - in time, people like this group (that fire people based upon a shirt advocating equality of rights) ... will be seen in the same negative light of history as anyone that fired a worker for saying they supported Civil Rights.

I don't disagree with you on any of this. I truly don't. You're absolutely right in my opinion, HOWEVER, our respective opinions of what people can and cannot do in our respective workplaces are our decisions. It does not give either of us the right to say what how they choose to run their business is wrong. The thing where we differ in this is that I'm looking at it at face value, which is that this is a dress code violation. You are looking at this as a human rights issue. I'm not saying that it isn't. He's absolutely wrong in this situation, but for the right reasons, and they're right, but for the wrong reasons.
04:49 PM on 01/21/13
Ollie McKraut
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if there is no dress code do they have a right to terminate the guy?
They have a right to terminate a guy for any reason that's not protected under federal law, or applicable state law, including what they showed up to work wearing. "They" are the boss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employm..._United_States
04:52 PM on 01/21/13
CallMeTroy
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No more oppressive than disallowing marijuana possession, which you relegate to "a purely political issue." Neither policy really "devalues" anyone "as a person," they just prevent people from doing something they want to.
Telling two people of the same sex they can't marry while opposite-gender couples can absolutely sends a message saying gay people are lesser humans; that marriage is above them, but it's not for straight people.
04:53 PM on 01/21/13
imposs1ble
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if there is no dress code do they have a right to terminate the guy?

There is a dress code everywhere. At my store there is no strict dress code, but I'm not going to allow somebody who works for me to come in with a shirt that says "suck my cock" on it. Once again,this is not about what's on the shirt in my eyes or yours. Its about what his employer feels to be on the shirt being an improper representation of the perception they want for their business.
04:55 PM on 01/21/13
Ollie McKraut
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This is a pretty flawed analogy. However, separate but equal policy most certainly does devalue someone as a person.
If you say so. The laws that prohibit same-sex marriage in some states apply to everyone. A man cannot marry a man and a woman cannot marry a woman, regardless of their sexual orientations. A man can marry a woman, regardless of their sexual orientations.

Prohibiting same-sex marriage obviously mainly affects gay people because they're the ones who'd seek a same-sex marriage in most (all) cases. Prohibiting marijuana use mainly affects marijuana smokers because they're the one who'd seek to possess, use, etc. marijuana.

Am I not "devalued as a person" by oppressive marijuana laws that mainly apply to me as a marijuana smoker, but not to non-smokers, any less than oppressive marriage laws that apply mainly to gay people, but not straight people, "devalue as people" gay people?
04:55 PM on 01/21/13
Jason Tate
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I don't disagree with you on any of this. I truly don't. You're absolutely right in my opinion, HOWEVER, our respective opinions of what people can and cannot do in our respective workplaces are our decisions. It does not give either of us the right to say what how they choose to run their business is wrong. The thing where we differ in this is that I'm looking at it at face value, which is that this is a dress code violation. You are looking at this as a human rights issue. I'm not saying that it isn't. He's absolutely wrong in this situation, but for the right reasons, and they're right, but for the wrong reasons.

To some degree we do tell businesses how they can run their business ... in a variety of fashions. And while they have they right to fire the worker, I hope others exercise their right to not attend their venue. I don't think anyone is arguing that they aren't legally allowed to fire someone -- just that in doing so they (hopefully) reap a consequence for their backwards thinking.

I do believe we have the right to say how they choose to run their business is wrong.

I firmly believe they CAN fire this man for this action, I don't recall saying differently. I asked if anyone knew about a prior dress code agreement - because I was curious if this was something that was made up now, or earlier. I also firmly hope no one spends money there and bands stop going.
04:58 PM on 01/21/13
KingMax01
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Why is universal equality considered a "personal" view? Should it not be inalienable?
This is what I was going to say. But I forgot
05:02 PM on 01/21/13
theHECKLER
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Why is universal equality considered a "personal" view? Should it not be inalienable?

I view it as forcing your beliefs on people by making a flamboyant statement on a t-shirt while at work. If anyone wants to that kind of stuff on their own perps al time, that's fine. But there's no need to push any agenda when it's not your time (example at work).
05:05 PM on 01/21/13
Jason Tate
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If you say so. The laws that prohibit same-sex marriage in some states apply to everyone. A man cannot marry a man and a woman cannot marry a woman, regardless of their sexual orientations. A man can marry a woman, regardless of their sexual orientations.
And the right to marry is the issue at hand, removing the right to marry the person you love is not analogous with your choice to smoke weed. I firmly believe you should be able to smoke weed all you want; however, you are not having a right removed that others have ... there's a big difference there.

Quote:
Prohibiting same-sex marriage obviously mainly affects gay people because they're the ones who'd seek a same-sex marriage in most (all) cases. Prohibiting marijuana use mainly affects marijuana smokers because they're the one who'd seek to possess, use, etc. marijuana.
But one is not a right bestowed upon another class of citizens arbitrarily. If those with blonde hair could smoke weed, and everyone else was SOL ... then maybe I'd agree with you.

Quote:
Am I not "devalued as a person" by oppressive marijuana laws that mainly apply to me as a marijuana smoker, but not to non-smokers, any less than oppressive marriage laws that apply mainly to gay people, but not straight people, "devalue as people" gay people?
This is a very odd sentence.

I think I get what you're asking ... and the answer is you are not devalued on the same level because you are not stripped of a right another person has, in the same manner.
05:06 PM on 01/21/13
Jason Tate
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I view it as forcing your beliefs on people by making a flamboyant statement on a t-shirt while at work. If anyone wants to that kind of stuff on their own perps al time, that's fine. But there's no need to push any agenda when it's not your time (example at work).

This doesn't answer my question at all.

Why is universal equality considered a "personal" view/agenda? Should it not be inalienable?
05:10 PM on 01/21/13
imposs1ble
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To some degree we do tell businesses how they can run their business ... in a variety of fashions. And while they have they right to fire the worker, I hope others exercise their right to not attend their venue. I don't think anyone is arguing that they aren't legally allowed to fire someone -- just that in doing so they (hopefully) reap a consequence for their backwards thinking.

I do believe we have the right to say how they choose to run their business is wrong.

I firmly believe they CAN fire this man for this action, I don't recall saying differently. I asked if anyone knew about a prior dress code agreement - because I was curious if this was something that was made up now, or earlier. I also firmly hope no one spends money there and bands stop going.

Well put and agreed upon. Thank you sir.
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