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02:16 PM on 02/14/13 
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<*)))><
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Oswego,NY
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What I mean to say is...did they take home a salary, and then invest $12,000 of that money into the business? Like did owner #1 get 60K for the year, and then spend 12K of that in investing into the business?
They took home nothing from 2012 from the driving range.
02:18 PM on 02/14/13 
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David87
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Wilmington, DE
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They took home nothing from 2012 from the driving range.

Did the updates to the range and cages bring in more business over the winter? I would be pissed if I spend 12K and then didn't make it back in one winter lol
02:24 PM on 02/14/13 
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Ryan Dennehy
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this driving range sounds like its spectacularly mismanaged
02:26 PM on 02/14/13 
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David87
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Wilmington, DE
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this driving range sounds like its spectacularly mismanaged

It's just a dying business in general. Golf, for whatever reason, isn't as popular in America as it once was. A lot of dudes over teha ge of 18 own a set of clubs, but they use it once a year when their office has the yearly outing.

Pretty soon the only places you'll have left are over-used public courses that don't offer many amenities, and super fancy private courses that are so nice they can charge their members buttons of money.
02:42 PM on 02/14/13 
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David87
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Wilmington, DE
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The course I work at, the first summer I worked there, we had about 180 members total, and on the busy nights I'd probably take home $60 or so in tips (usually two afternoon guys splitting tips down the middle)

Not even 5 years before that, they had 300+ members, and $100-$120 tip nights were the usual, from what my buddy that's worked there forever told me.

The pro and assistant pro that had been there forever said back in the 80s and 90s it was literally just like the party scene in Caddyshack every weekend. They'd have a party for all the members and they'd call come and get shit faced at the club and have a good time.
02:49 PM on 02/14/13 
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EasySkankin
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Are there studies for this? All I've seen is the Krueger study Liz posted. And I'll fully admit I haven't done much reading on this subject.

They are uncountable. It's been hotly debated since the idea became policy. I'm on mobile at work so I can't go dig em up right now.
02:52 PM on 02/14/13 
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<*)))><
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Oswego,NY
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Did the updates to the range and cages bring in more business over the winter? I would be pissed if I spend 12K and then didn't make it back in one winter lol
We use to close to the batting cages during the winter and on average day well make around $200-400 off them during the winter. The problem right now is no one knows they are open.
this driving range sounds like its spectacularly mismanaged
Every year less people come, we also need to fix up some things such as the minigolf course which is pitiful. So less people come which means we can't fix things, which means less people come and so on.
02:52 PM on 02/14/13 
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EasySkankin
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I can point to articles saying raising the minimum wage won't have any real effect on the economy as a whole. In fact, one of these articles is what ignited this discussion. It's the middle class that stimulates the economy through consumption. We're the ones out there buying things at Mom and Pops, we're the ones filling up our tanks with gas. We directly affect our communities and, as a result, the economy as a whole. "Small business owners" (I know you don't want to use that term) would benefit in the long run, and so would everybody else. Employees will stay at their jobs longer, become more experienced, efficient, and productive. They will also (obviously) have more money to spend. Businesses won't have to worry so much about the cost of turnover. The government will have less people filing for benefits and they'll have more tax revenue.

Pretty sure if we haven't come full circle yet, we will soon.

You're missing the whole relativity of it all. Yes, they will have more money to spend (if they still have their job), but the things they spend money on will be more expensive so there is no REAL change. All you are doing is shrinking the participating labor force.
03:00 PM on 02/14/13 
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CollectiveConfusion
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You're missing the whole relativity of it all. Yes, they will have more money to spend (if they still have their job), but the things they spend money on will be more expensive so there is no REAL change.

That's the chicken and the egg type scenario David was talking about earlier. Prices don't HAVE to go up, it's just easier for businesses to pass the buck down to the consumer. And studies have shown that if prices do go up, they'd be miniscule. And if a restaurant decides that because the minimum wage went up, they are going to charge double (hyperbole, I know) their usual price for a hamburger? Then people will stop buying it. Prices will only get as high as consumers will let them.

Quote:
All you are doing is shrinking the participating labor force.

I disagree, for reasons I stated earlier.

Now we definitely are at full circle.
03:06 PM on 02/14/13 
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oldwirehands
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Not even a $1 more would be enough to live off of. Unless you want to give someone a slow-death sentence of a McDonald's diet, then yeah, someone could make it along for a limited amount of years. Sooner or later, that person could develop a mental illness, due to stress and a poor diet, and end up shooting people, or themselves.

I'd like to see the what percent of those hourly-wage workers make under $15, and have health insurance to go with it. I'd be you'll find that 5% will jump up real quick. That doesn't even account of the people who are making money under the table, doing something illegal. Those people are real, and have families to take care of. Poverty in America affects much more than just 5% of hourly paid workers.
04:26 PM on 02/14/13 
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ctmk
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Another politically demogouged issue. Less than 5% off hourly workers make minimum wage, most of whom are teenagers working part-time. I feel like minimum wage is talked about as though everyone is suffering from it. The fact is, very few people make minimum wage. Most of the people that do aren't in need of a "living wage" because they are only working 20-30 hours a week and living with their parents.

The timing of this announcement is meant to coincide with the passage of some massive immigration bill that will probably be announced soon. The newly legal immigrants (a good chuck of people) will be making minimum wage and thus unable to support themselves. This (new minimum wages) needs to be in place in order for there not to be a massive rise in the number of American citizens living below the poverty line.

Regardless, Im not against giving a few million people a little more money in their pocket.
08:40 PM on 02/14/13 
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Amongster
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But it wouldn't be $10, to offset the costs McDonald's would just hire less workers making minimum wage so instead of 6 people behind the counter and in the kitchen, there would be 2.

Then productivity would need to increase, devaluing minimum wage again.
08:52 PM on 02/14/13 
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caveBEAR
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The timing of this announcement is meant to coincide with the passage of some massive immigration bill that will probably be announced soon. The newly legal immigrants (a good chuck of people) will be making minimum wage and thus unable to support themselves. This (new minimum wages) needs to be in place in order for there not to be a massive rise in the number of American citizens living below the poverty line.

Regardless, Im not against giving a few million people a little more money in their pocket.

Took 5 pages but we finally have a winner here.
09:24 PM on 02/14/13 
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Amongster
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Illinois, USA
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At my work we have been raising the prices ever since I started two and a half years ago. For a small smoothie it costs roughly four dollars. My store is a million dollar store. We make a lot of money on a good day. It's not even summer time yet too. In the summer we can easily make five grand on a good day. I have only received three raises while working for said company. All about 10 to 15 cent raises. I barely make nine dollars an hour. My company has raised their prices so many times that I think it's bullshit I haven't had a better raise.

As former employee of that chain for three years, I've experienced this too and it is bullshit. Each time prices increase, it's by at least a quarter, and annual raises can be anywhere from five to twenty cents. Raises don't keep up with cost of living increases, even though the company can afford to make that happen.
06:03 AM on 02/15/13 
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birdman
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The timing of this announcement is meant to coincide with the passage of some massive immigration bill that will probably be announced soon. The newly legal immigrants (a good chuck of people) will be making minimum wage and thus unable to support themselves. This (new minimum wages) needs to be in place in order for there not to be a massive rise in the number of American citizens living below the poverty line.

Regardless, Im not against giving a few million people a little more money in their pocket.

First, you are making a lot of assumptions based on a "some" bill, the specifics of which are unknown. Wouldn't a work placement program do better to raise the average income of a newly documented worker than simply raising the minimum wage?

And what makes you think these hypothetical newly documented workers are unskilled and only capable of getting minimum wage?



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