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12:22 PM on 06/17/14
texan4lif281
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I am actually so incredibly disheartened by this thread. I am so disheartened by the fact that people believe that it's bringing in evil quotas when you ask the person who runs the Warped Tour to have more than 6% of his musicians be female. I'm asking him to stop choosing men over women because society dictates that men are more profitable rock bands or because he just prefers men.

I am so disheartened by the fact that I'm being told over and over again that there is no such thing as sexism in our scene and that it's not a problem. In a scene where bands sell sexist merch, where women are constantly ignored and everything is about the boys, it saddens me that people don't think that's wrong.

I am also disheartened by the fact that most of the people who suggested the above didn't actually seem to read the article. I wonder what the response would have been if I was male.


It blows my mind too, I do not understand peoples' point of views.
12:24 PM on 06/17/14
Jason Tate
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Agreed, specifically to your point about the wishes of female musicians (who I believe are the only group that hasn't come out of the woodwork to comment on this thing).

How would female musicians feel about being selected for a tour solely because they are women? How would they feel about being a part of this "initiative" and to quite literally fulfill a quota.

Furthermore, would that even make a difference? Someone stated that bands CHOOSE not to play Warped because of the misogyny and other social issues that are perpetuated. Why not try to make Warped a BETTER place for women rather than simply inviting more to the circus?
No one said you can only do one thing.
12:24 PM on 06/17/14
swboyd
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i don't see Kylesa not fitting with this tour at all. They have had metal acts numerous times in the past.
Kylesa on Warped Tour would go over like a lead balloon.
12:24 PM on 06/17/14
Kelly Doherty
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This is a rather stupid point. You don't think if Kellin Quinn or Andy Biersak broke into the mainstream that there would be similar articles? They too would be broken down to just "man", instead of "musician".
Plenty of stations and sites (TMZ, etc.) focus more on the personal lives of actors and actresses, or congress(wo)men, too. It's the most primal version of increasing exposure, and, although demeaning, articles like those do help to keep artists relevant.
At a scale like you are talking about, the issue is no longer scene, or gender, specific...

I didn't mean to bring forth the "equality for men too!" discussion to argue my point, but it's hard not to with topics like these. Everyone should be equal...
I'm referring to Hayley Williams before she broke through to the mainstream. I read articles about her love life and fashion top back in Kerrang! and Alternative Press. I expect that from TMZ or whatever, but Kerrang! isn't in the habit of writing about Oli Sykes' lovelife.
12:24 PM on 06/17/14
Kiana
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I can certainly recognize that.

(I am trying to clear all of the snarkiness and sniping that have been a part of this discussion)

I guess where I sort of differ in perspective is what the desired end result is.

I don't believe that Lyman takes gender into consideration when he picks bands for Warped. I don't even think he really picks the bands at all. But assuming he does, is he cognizant of the gender make up of each band? Do you think he looks at anything more than record sales, touring history, and shit like Twitter followers? Do you think he knows who Ice Nine Kills is,, what they sound like, and who is int he group?

I doubt it.

So what action would he be taking away from the suggestion that he needs to find more female musicians? That he start taking gender into consideration? Is that what female musicians really want? To Neko Case's point to Playboy, she has succeeded because she makes great music, not because she is a female.

I don't know, I am rambling.

I honestly don't know how he chooses his bands. I'd be inclined to agree that he just looks where the $$$ is. Obviously he needs to make money to continue the tour, but there are so many bands on Warped aside from the main ones. A good portion of bands on the tour are little bands that play side stages and most people have never heard of. I doubt he makes a ton of money off of those, so I guess I am curious about how a lot of those bands get picked too. Obviously the big draws are based off popularity, but what about all the others? Why are so many of those artists who are usually male and probably don't make a lot of money for him picked? I don't know all the answers, but I think they are important questions to ask. Now obviously I'd like to see more bands with women as big draws too, but I think it's baby steps. I think if women are given more opportunities on the smaller stages (I know he gives some opportunities, but more would not hurt), it's a great motivation for other women. The more representation there is, the more I think other women will be inclined to join bands and feel like they can make it too, and eventually there will be more women in bands that are big draws. If there are way fewer female musicians to look up to for them, I can see why women would feel like it's a losing battle and not even bother to try because it's such a boy's club.

I think there's not one easy answer. I think he had to opportunity to encourage women and open a dialogue with Megan and talk about these issues and have it reach a wide audience, and he did not take that. Instead he got childish and defensive. He could talk about the negative environment of Warped that puts off women and makes them not want to join his tour. It wouldn't have solved all of the problems, but it'd have been a good start.
12:25 PM on 06/17/14
phaynes1
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With the acoustic basement, it's absolutely gross that there are only several out of 18 acts that are female. Are you trying to tell me that Kevin Lyman can't find more female singer-songwriters?
12:26 PM on 06/17/14
FTank
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Don't care to get involved in this whatsoever but responses on either side that say something like "lol" or "you are the worst" are decidedly unproductive and make others less likely to listen to your platform
12:26 PM on 06/17/14
phaynes1
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Kylesa on Warped Tour would go over like a lead balloon.
So did Lucero.

(I very much enjoy both bands)
12:27 PM on 06/17/14
Kiana
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I'm referring to Hayley Williams before she broke through to the mainstream. I read articles about her love life and fashion top back in Kerrang! and Alternative Press. I expect that from TMZ or whatever, but Kerrang! isn't in the habit of writing about Oli Sykes' lovelife.
I definitely remember reading an article with her for a music magazine yearssss ago (can't remember which) where they asked her about her period. It's a bit ridiculous.
12:27 PM on 06/17/14
SkyGrowsBigger
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OH MY FUCKING GOD WOMEN CAN BE CHOSEN BECAUSE THEY'RE GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO INSTEAD OF BEING IGNORED BECAUSE OUR SCENE LARGELY DOESNT HAVE RESPECT FOR WOMEN ARE YOU LISTENING TO ANYTHING I HAVE SAID
I think in this case it's you Kelly, who isn't listening. The suggestion in your article dictates that if there are two identical bands in skill and merit, Kevin should choose the band with female members. That is quite literally choosing the band solely for their gender.
12:28 PM on 06/17/14
phaynes1
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Always love it when dudes tell women that they are missing the point in sexism/misogyny debates.
12:28 PM on 06/17/14
domotime2
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kevin should do a better job of finding more shitty female acts like he does for male acts.... I agree with this.
12:29 PM on 06/17/14
FTank
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This is a rather stupid point. You don't think if Kellin Quinn or Andy Biersak broke into the mainstream that there would be similar articles? They too would be broken down to just "man", instead of "musician".
Plenty of stations and sites (TMZ, etc.) focus more on the personal lives of actors and actresses, or congress(wo)men, too. It's the most primal version of increasing exposure, and, although demeaning, articles like those do help to keep artists relevant.
At a scale like you are talking about, the issue is no longer scene, or gender, specific...

I didn't mean to bring forth the "equality for men too!" discussion to argue my point, but it's hard not to with topics like these. Everyone should be equal...
Yep
12:30 PM on 06/17/14
SkyGrowsBigger
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I don't know, I see where you are coming from, and agree on alot of it. But, I guess what I am trying to say is if Lyman was blatantly against women bands and women I would be the first to say there is something that needs to be done. But for the sole reason he only has 6% women bands on his tour, I don't think you can say he is oppressing or mistreating women, or that he is a sexist or whatever.
Just to be clear, because I'm seeing a lot of misuse of statistics, I believe the original estimates were that approximately 20% of the bands on the tour have at least one female member and that 6% of all musicians on the tour individually were female.
12:30 PM on 06/17/14
Dom-182
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I think this entire issue has been blown so far out of proportion today. Is anyone actually accusing Kevin Lyman or anyone at the Warped Tour of being sexist? Is Kevin going out of his way to exclude bands with female members? Of course not. From my understanding of the article/interview, Kevin is simply choosing the BEST bands to include on his tour. In this case, the "best" is likely defined as a combination of bands that will pull crowds and sell tickets as well as talented younger artists that he believe have the potential to draw those crowds one day. Notice that none of those criteria involve gender in any way, shape, or form.

But that's the problem, right? Kelly, it seems that what you're really looking for is more in the vein of "affirmative action." The only actionable suggestion you provided in your write up is to include more up and comers with females in the group in lieu of similar-sized bands comprised solely of males. So, you're seriously suggesting that Kevin throw out the criteria mentioned above, where he is subjectively selecting artists based on merit/ability to contribute to the profitability of the festival and replace that with a quota based purely on the gender of the artists? Would female musicians even WANT to be included on a tour like this simply because they fulfill that quota?

This entire arguments seems moot to me as to your other point, there are simply LESS female musicians in this scene. Is it 50%? Hell no. I'd even venture to guess that if you gathered all the musicians from the last 25 shows I've been to, assumed 4 members in the band for a total of 100 people, there would be less than 10 in that group that are female. So how far off are we really from that 6%? If you're expecting anything close to 50% or even 30% for that matter I think it would be wise to stop arguing in vague ideologies and start looking at the real, specific demographics of this scene. I think I speak for many when I say that I don't want the quality of the Warped Tour to decline even further because Kevin is inviting bands with female members simply to reach some arbitrary quota and to exclude better male-only artists that deserve a fair and EQUAL shot at being successful.

This makes too much sense to be posted on this website.

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