AbsolutePunk.net
   Username
Password
 
Comments: Page 2
Displaying posts 15 - 30 of 700
11:32 AM on 06/17/14
Kelly Doherty
@DylanintheMovie
Offline
User Info.
Kelly Doherty's Avatar
I think this entire issue has been blown so far out of proportion today. Is anyone actually accusing Kevin Lyman or anyone at the Warped Tour of being sexist? Is Kevin going out of his way to exclude bands with female members? Of course not. From my understanding of the article/interview, Kevin is simply choosing the BEST bands to include on his tour. In this case, the "best" is likely defined as a combination of bands that will pull crowds and sell tickets as well as talented younger artists that he believe have the potential to draw those crowds one day. Notice that none of those criteria involve gender in any way, shape, or form.

But that's the problem, right? Kelly, it seems that what you're really looking for is more in the vein of "affirmative action." The only actionable suggestion you provided in your write up is to include more up and comers with females in the group in lieu of similar-sized bands comprised solely of males. So, you're seriously suggesting that Kevin throw out the criteria mentioned above, where he is subjectively selecting artists based on merit/ability to contribute to the profitability of the festival and replace that with a quota based purely on the gender of the artists? Would female musicians even WANT to be included on a tour like this simply because they fulfill that quota?

This entire arguments seems moot to me as to your other point, there are simply LESS female musicians in this scene. Is it 50%? Hell no. I'd even venture to guess that if you gathered all the musicians from the last 25 shows I've been to, assumed 4 members in the band for a total of 100 people, there would be less than 10 in that group that are female. So how far off are we really from that 6%? If you're expecting anything close to 50% or even 30% for that matter I think it would be wise to stop arguing in vague ideologies and start looking at the real, specific demographics of this scene. I think I speak for many when I say that I don't want the quality of the Warped Tour to decline even further because Kevin is inviting bands with female members simply to reach some arbitrary quota and to exclude better male-only artists that deserve a fair and EQUAL shot at being successful.
He chooses the most popular. Not the best. Big difference.
11:37 AM on 06/17/14
SkyGrowsBigger
Regular Member
Offline
User Info.
SkyGrowsBigger's Avatar
He chooses the most popular. Not the best. Big difference.
I don't think that's true at all. You said it yourself that he's selecting more unknown up and comers. What do you think he's basing that on? They're not popular. However, it's my understanding that Kevin books certain bands based on skill and potential. You're suggesting he replace "skill and potential" with "female."
11:37 AM on 06/17/14
duritzfan13
Order inspires disorder
Offline
User Info.
duritzfan13's Avatar
He chooses the most popular. Not the best. Big difference.
He said "best" is likely defined as a combination of bands that will pull crowds and sell tickets as well as talented younger artists that he believe have the potential to draw those crowds one day" in his post that you just quoted. The definition he gave includes popularity/draw. Either way, there are female artists on the tour.. being given the same opportunity as the male artists on the tour. It depends on talent and popularity. Not gender. It's music. It's a festival.
11:38 AM on 06/17/14
cowlord
( \_(ツ)_/)
Offline
User Info.
cowlord's Avatar
Really good article. Thanks for writing it.
11:38 AM on 06/17/14
TylerHartman
Registered User
Offline
User Info.
TylerHartman's Avatar
He chooses the most popular. Not the best. Big difference.

From a business standpoint, isn't that how staying viable in an ever changing market, is handled?

Your piece was great, btw. I'm looking at this purely from the business end.
11:39 AM on 06/17/14
ImAMetaphor
forget everything you know
Online
User Info.
ImAMetaphor's Avatar
Great article Kelly, thank you.
11:39 AM on 06/17/14
Jake Jenkins
dont talk to me
Online
User Info.
Jake Jenkins's Avatar
Very excited to read this later
11:39 AM on 06/17/14
Jason Tate
Online
User Info.
Jason Tate's Avatar
I think this entire issue has been blown so far out of proportion today. Is anyone actually accusing Kevin Lyman or anyone at the Warped Tour of being sexist? Is Kevin going out of his way to exclude bands with female members? Of course not. From my understanding of the article/interview, Kevin is simply choosing the BEST bands to include on his tour. In this case, the "best" is likely defined as a combination of bands that will pull crowds and sell tickets as well as talented younger artists that he believe have the potential to draw those crowds one day. Notice that none of those criteria involve gender in any way, shape, or form.

But that's the problem, right? Kelly, it seems that what you're really looking for is more in the vein of "affirmative action." The only actionable suggestion you provided in your write up is to include more up and comers with females in the group in lieu of similar-sized bands comprised solely of males. So, you're seriously suggesting that Kevin throw out the criteria mentioned above, where he is subjectively selecting artists based on merit/ability to contribute to the profitability of the festival and replace that with a quota based purely on the gender of the artists? Would female musicians even WANT to be included on a tour like this simply because they fulfill that quota?

This entire arguments seems moot to me as to your other point, there are simply LESS female musicians in this scene. Is it 50%? Hell no. I'd even venture to guess that if you gathered all the musicians from the last 25 shows I've been to, assumed 4 members in the band for a total of 100 people, there would be less than 10 in that group that are female. So how far off are we really from that 6%? If you're expecting anything close to 50% or even 30% for that matter I think it would be wise to stop arguing in vague ideologies and start looking at the real, specific demographics of this scene. I think I speak for many when I say that I don't want the quality of the Warped Tour to decline even further because Kevin is inviting bands with female members simply to reach some arbitrary quota and to exclude better male-only artists that deserve a fair and EQUAL shot at being successful.
To make this claim you need to be able to show that the bands currently on the tour are selected based on merit+ability+profitability. The countless bands that have everyone go "who?" makes this a hard argument to make with a straight face.

I think it's disappointing you believe the quality would decline if great female bands were added instead the pretty mediocre lineup of "relatively unknown" male bands that currently dominate the bottom half of the list this year.
11:41 AM on 06/17/14
eastcoast-fu
lng lv th cr crsh hrts
Offline
User Info.
eastcoast-fu's Avatar
I'd rather see the focus be on the treatment, not the number, of women in the scene. I think that's a bigger and more solvable problem.
11:42 AM on 06/17/14
DrewsMannequin
Registered User
Offline
User Info.
DrewsMannequin's Avatar
He chooses the most popular. Not the best. Big difference.
To be fair, I think Lyman knows more about how a festival should be booked and run than you or the original woman who spoke out about this. Lyman is clearly not sexist, so for what other reason besides the fact that it's a senseless way to book a festival would he have against adding more women to the bill?
11:43 AM on 06/17/14
AP_Punk
Anarchist Cat Owner
Offline
User Info.
AP_Punk's Avatar
Great article, Kelly.
11:43 AM on 06/17/14
CluckyB
Modern Baseball is WAR
Online
User Info.
CluckyB's Avatar

So lets assume you're right and he really is just picking the "best" bands. Does that mean you're okay with the state of the scene if only 6% of the "best" punk rock musicians are female?
11:45 AM on 06/17/14
zachff
deadformat.net/tradelist/zachff
Offline
User Info.
zachff's Avatar
You know what I see here by everyone on Kevin Lyman's/the "opposition" side?

A fucking lot of passing the buck.
11:45 AM on 06/17/14
duritzfan13
Order inspires disorder
Offline
User Info.
duritzfan13's Avatar
To make this claim you need to be able to show that the bands currently on the tour are selected based on merit+ability+profitability. The countless bands that have everyone go "who?" makes this a hard argument to make with a straight face.

I think it's disappointing you believe the quality would decline if great female bands were added instead the pretty mediocre lineup of "relatively unknown" male bands that currently dominate the bottom half of the list this year.
I think it has less to do with the fact that they're men and more to do with what people like and who the promoters believe in and believe deserve that shot. You're trying to claim that Lyman is purposely not giving female acts that opportunity because they're not men?
11:47 AM on 06/17/14
duritzfan13
Order inspires disorder
Offline
User Info.
duritzfan13's Avatar
So lets assume you're right and he really is just picking the "best" bands. Does that mean you're okay with the state of the scene if only 6% of the "best" punk rock musicians are female?
That's a completely different argument though. It's one thing to argue there's not enough female bands in the scene due to discrimination reasons, but it's a whole nother thing to argue that a festival should be booking more women simply because they're women. There's no starting point there. It's a known fact that the scene is male-dominant. And THAT'S what needs to change before you take it to festivals.

NEWS, MUSIC & MORE
Search News
Release Dates
Exclusives
Best New Music
Articles
CONNECT
Submit News
Forums
Contests
Mobile Version
AP.net Logos
HIDDEN TREASURES
AbsolutePunk Podcast
Free Music
Sports Forum
Technology Forum
Recommendations
INFORMATION
Advertising
Contact Us
Copyright Policy
Terms of Service
Privacy Policy
FOLLOW
Twitter | Facebook | RSS
AP.net Podcast on iTunes
UnderTheGun
Purevolume
Chorus.fm | @jason_tate